Little Cliff rescued from slaughter

[Marli]

Hi County-

And I have to compliment you on your stock- I was up late the other nite, surfin’ the net a little, and checked your website. Some fine looking horses. Can’t wait to see your youngstock! :yes:

And you’re correct that there hasn’t been any direct comment made by the trainer/owner. The information gathered is ‘suggestive’ that there isn’t any regard given. And again, I will reitterate that we have contacted some owners/trainers that do want to do right by their horses. That ole’ saying- a few bad apples spoils the bunch kinda thing…

[county]

I think maybe its just that some think anyone who doesn’t do things their way has to be wrong I have no problems with anyone that doesn’t want to sell their livestock to slaughter but that hardly makes someone who does wrong or they don’t " do right " with them.

[rigoletto]

[QUOTE=Kenike;3156272]
Along with that, if you’ve ever been to a slaughterhouse (equine). While the processing is professional and clean, it is shocking to see them walk so calmly to a certain point, then just panic when they smell, followed by watch what is going on. It’s definitely a stressful, frightening thing for them.[/QUOTE]

I’ve seen videos of horses being slaughtered, but I know that I couldn’t deal with it live. The videos were traumatic enough . The entire process from auction, to transport and slaughter is wrought with cruelty and inhumane treatment. We owe our horses much better than this.

[county]

I don’t know about your slaughter system but the ones I see aren’t that way at all fact is there no differant then any other species. Perfect? No but not many things are, fact is though the strictest transport laws for slaughter animals are horses.

Marli, thank you very much we try hard to breed some nice working type horses. No foals yet but first one is due the 27th.

[DLee]

[QUOTE=county;3156938]
I think maybe its just that some think anyone who doesn’t do things their way has to be wrong I have no problems with anyone that doesn’t want to sell their livestock to slaughter but that hardly makes someone who does wrong or they don’t " do right " with them.[/QUOTE]

Right and wrong is pretty much a matter of opinion then I guess.

[Kenike]

@county;3161871

I don’t know about your slaughter system but the ones I see aren’t that way at all fact is there no differant then any other species. Perfect? No but not many things are, fact is though the strictest transport laws for slaughter animals are horses.

I’m talking American system, Dallas-Crown, to be exact. But I’m not the one who brought up transport (moot point). Not trying to argue, just sharing what I saw.

[county]

Dallas Crown is no differant then 100’s of other slaughter plants across the country. Most of us eat meat that comes out of them every week of one species or another.

[caffeinated]

@county;3156938

I think maybe its just that some think anyone who doesn’t do things their way has to be wrong I have no problems with anyone that doesn’t want to sell their livestock to slaughter but that hardly makes someone who does wrong or they don’t " do right " with them.

county- I think the issue I have is that the horse wasn’t given a “chance”- sending a horse direct to slaughter means that it never had a chance at a different opportunity (except for a few good people in the right place at the right time). I recognize that race trainers are trying to make a living, that it’s a really hard business, and that horses not earning their keep have to go, to make room for horses that will. And because of that I try not to be too judgey about trainers who ship horses off to New Holland or wherever, provided they’re going through the sale, where they at least have a chance If it doesn’t work out, it’s sad to me, but at least there was an opportunity there for the horse to earn his keep in a different way, or make someone happy.

So many of the horses coming off the track are still useful- they’re not rogues, or incurable, or crippled- they just need a little time off and some work and can be perfectly useful members of society. When people don’t even give them the chance for that, to me, that’s not doing right by the horse. I know I have more of a “pet” mentality than you do, but there’s something that really bothers me about taking an animal that worked so very hard for you, and gave its all for you, and perhaps hurt itself for you, and just tossing it. Even if you can’t afford to keep that animal anymore, at least give it a fighting shot at doing something else useful, you know?

If the horse actually gets through a sale and nobody wants it- it was still given a shot, at least. Maybe not the best shot, but a shot nonetheless.

[county]

I agree with you totally thats why I’ve always felt people should at least sell their horses through an auction rather then directly to a kill buyer. Like you said the horse gets a chance small as it may be, but still a chance. I do the same with my stock cows I cull out, rather then take them directly to a packing plant I sell at auction. They may get bought buy the packing plant buyer but some get bought by other breeders that hace cattle not as good as the ones in my program. Others that are halter broke and tame sometimes get bought by Amish farmers and used for home milk cows.

[Kenike]

@county;3163748

Dallas Crown is no differant then 100’s of other slaughter plants across the country. Most of us eat meat that comes out of them every week of one species or another.

I’m not discounting that, not at all! I was only stating the reaction I physically saw, with my own two eyes, when the horses in the kill line came around the corner and were assaulted with the smell and sights of what awaited them. That’s all.

And I also totally agree that it’s so, so, so sad to just sell directly to a kill buyer or slaughterhouse. Even “old” horses deserve the chance to have more in life. :no:

Back to the point of the thread, I’ll forever be a fan of the Zito’s, and I’m thrilled someone was able to rescue this horse…despite the sadness I feel for the countless other horses.

[Linny]

@rigoletto;3151329

Kim, Nick and Bob LaPenta have been wonderful to work with and really want this story to be spread far and wide. It is their hope, and ours, that this will help raise awareness of just how vigilant people must be in keeping track of horses they want to protect when the horses change hands. Thankfully, Little Cliff is safe and will always be cared for now. The shock and sadness in Kim Zito’s voice the day I called her almost made me cry. Then she was angry that Ramon Preciado didn’t care enough to pick up the phone and try to find the horse a better place to go than the direct to slaughter pen. Even if he didn’t see the sticker, there’s no excuse for not trying. I guess he wanted to money from the dealer more than he wanted to protect the horse. He’s apparently one of this guy’s steady customer’s. The dealer spilled his guts.

I know Nick and Kim and have met LaPenta. The Zito’s are very interested in what becomes of their former charges and put that sticker on all of them. It is simply impractical for them to keep them all but they ARE willing to go to great lengths to help.

[cloudyandcallie]

1000s more

thanks to all the rescue people. but has you know there are thousands more OTTBs who meet horrible deaths. My girl was OTTB who was going to be “filly mignon” when I rescued her. turned out to have perfect conformation once she got weight on her, and perfect bloodlines. and smart as a whip. “Kick and Howl”
so keep rescuing. I’m going to get 3 or 4 more OTTB mares (when barren they get cast aside) as soon as I sell a building and buy some land in horse country.
I think everyone who does rescues especially like at New Holland, is wonderful. keep up the work I know it is heartbreaking sometimes, but wonderful when an unknown and not famous horse can be rescued.

[Linny]

@Centuree;3156294

I completely agree, this is what it all comes down to, irresponsible breeding :mad: makes me incredibly mad that people are SO careless. I guess this is what happens though when people gamble with living animals, doesn’t matter so much when its poker or roulette.

Irresponsible breeding is part of the issue but not most of it. Many of the horses that end up as either slaughter cases or in dire need of re-homing ARE fairly well bred. Cliff was a stakes competitor, a son of a leading stallion, himself a champion racehorse.

I realize how expensive it is to maintain racehorses, even at lesser venues. I know that even at lesser tracks that most of the people caring for the horses are good horsemen, trying to do their best by their stock. A few bad apples spoil the repuation of the whole bunch. It is unfair to assume that any horse competing at smaller tracks is somehow at risk. They are not.
I have been lucky in that most of my involvement in racing has been in NY and I have seen many top horses. I’ve also seen average stock who are better suited to lesser tracks/circuits. Just because NY trainers let horses go to lesser circuits doesn’t make the evil. These are racehorses and if NY is too tough maybe New Jersey or maryland will suit. Similarly, if they can’t cut it there, someone in West VA might have a spot for them etc. People like the Zito’s do what they can, within their power to help provide. If owners like LaPenta want to deal in stakes horses they have every right to sell the ones that don’t work out. (I own a small share in a former LaPenta/Zito horse.) It is a business yet they try to help out their former stock if they can. If the owner or trainer were not willing to drop a dime on Cliff’s behalf, that is just pathetic.
I saw some pics of Cliff from they day he was rescued. He looked great. I was amazed that a horse that looked so healthy would have been in the killer pen, but in today’s economy, even fit healthy horses are hard to market.

[county]

I’m always amazed that people are surprised healthy, fit, good weight horses are slaughtered. Exactly what type animal do people like for their meat source? I’ve yet to hear anyone say I can’t wait to eat a steak from a skinny, crippled, sick animal.

[Linny]

My surprise is not because I would want to eat meat from sickly animals (I do eat chicken and pork but not beef) but because I would imagine that such animals would at least be given a chance by someone.

[Blueshadow]

Linny, roughly 15% of US horses slaughtered are TBs - say 15,000 per year, and a large fraction of those are young, straight off the track. They are young and fit, some are injured, but often the injuries are relatively minor and six months off with appropriate care will heal them (otherwise the horse would have been euthanized at the track).

They aren’t given a chance because resources are insufficient to save them all. Rescues can only do so much. I don’t know what the market for sporthorses looks like in your part of the world, but in CA warmbloods dominate the hunter/jumper world. We are IMPORTING them! Sort of ironic to me - that we are importing horses from Europe while 100,000 of our own are exported for slaughter.

In CA alone, 2500 racehorses leave the tracks every year at the conclusion of their careers. Some of those will be bred (fillies). Some are donated to TB retirement farms. Some are lucky. But the rest?

If you have any ideas for giving them a better chance they would be greatly appreciated. CA is trying to introduce an owner opt out fee on race winnings to support racehorse retirement. It’s a drop in the bucket compared to the numbers and they are predicting a 50% opt out rate but it’s a start…

[county]

I guess thats the part I don’t understand, I mean if people want to give money to " save the horses " thats fine its their money. But I just don’t get the save one species over another deal? Milk cows are sent to slaughter when they no longer milk yet people gobble up hamburgers by the millions. I don’t see the horse as being so special more then the cow?

[Linny]

One proposal I would make would be for those tracks that have slots. I would demand that a percentage, however small, of slot revenue be funnelled directly to a center of some sort designed to retrain and place useful TB’s coming off that track.
The model at Fingerlakes (upstate NY) is a good one. The FLTAP program is associated with the Exceller Fund.

While no method is perfect, and sadly, horses slip through the cracks I think that if track management gets on board with such attempts there is a greater likelihood of success.

[Evalee_Hunter]

[QUOTE=county;3170881]
I guess thats the part I don’t understand, I mean if people want to give money to " save the horses " thats fine its their money. But I just don’t get the save one species over another deal? Milk cows are sent to slaughter when they no longer milk yet people gobble up hamburgers by the millions. I don’t see the horse as being so special more then the cow?[/QUOTE]

I would prefer that there be no slaughter of horses. However, I am with you, County, when you say how is one species better than another? I have been saying for at least the last 35 or 40 years that anyone who can eat a cute little lamb (and lambs are CUTE!!) should have no problem whatsoever eating a horse. For that matter, piglets are CUTE and calves, but that doesn’t stop people from eating veal. No, I have never understood how someone can eat one species & not another.

Temple Grandin says she would prefer that there be no slaughter, but she doesn’t think that will ever happen as people evolved to include meat in their diet, so she puts her efforts into making slaughter humane & I really think that’s where our efforts should be. Don’t outlaw slaughter of horses; keep it in this country where we can regulate it; make it as humane as possible; use education to reduce breeding & use more education to urge horse owners to look for other answers rather than slaughter.

[Kenike]

@county;3170042

I’m always amazed that people are surprised healthy, fit, good weight horses are slaughtered. Exactly what type animal do people like for their meat source? I’ve yet to hear anyone say I can’t wait to eat a steak from a skinny, crippled, sick animal.

[quote=county;3170881]I guess thats the part I don’t understand, I mean if people want to give money to " save the horses " thats fine its their money. But I just don’t get the save one species over another deal? Milk cows are sent to slaughter when they no longer milk yet people gobble up hamburgers by the millions. I don’t see the horse as being so special more then the cow?
[/quote]

County, it’s a rare thing, but I actually agree with you 100% on both of these quotes!! :yes: