@Equkelly - I did use the verternary strength version of succeed tubes for 60 days and then the regular tubes for an additional 30. I did see results but nothing immediate and the results aligned with spring and return to grass so I’m really not convinced succeed made a huge impact.
Update - I have my guy on forco for a week and did order ablers sucralfate granuals to put him on 30 days of the high dose to see if that makes and impact.
Where do you buy this as a compound from? I have ground them up and that is annoying and picky eater avoids it…’
I get it through my vet at his online pharmacy but I used to get it from Wedgewood
Update - tried Forco for a month but had a hard time getting horse to eat their recommended dose. Stopped when I got sucralfate (ablers) and hes been on that for 2/3 weeks and seems to be getting worse. Not finishing grain and spends more time digging in the snow and eating dead grass/snow then eating hay these days.
So frustrated - I have a call into my vet and am considering putting him on omeprazole but worried if its hind gut omeprazole could make it worse. Checking to see if vet will ultrasound to confirm hind gut inflammation.
Also have a lameness vet coming out to see if there could be any pain related issues causing the symptoms (poor topline, now lack of appetite and lethargic).
Considering an allergy test…? Horse did better before moving to a new location within the same region - could it be something in the hay that isn’t in the hay an hour away?
While hind gut ulcers as a diagnosis seems to make sense to me I feel like I’ve never really gotten to the root cause or completely resolved the horses issue despite changes to lifestyle, hay, grain, supplements, succeed, sucralfate and omeprazole.
This is the third winter I’ve spent banging my head against the wall and I’m not sure what to do next.
All I can tell you (and I haven’t re-read this thread, so I might have posted before) is that Assure Guard Gold keeps my horse healthy. Before it, he would colic very frequently (weekly/biweekly kind of frequently). We made a hay change and added AGG and he has been great ever since. It has been 2 years come this April. It is pricey, but it works! A couple weeks ago, I noticed him acting a little dull and moody. I upped his AGG for two weeks and he was back to himself again. The vets at the specialty hospital told me he’d need it the rest of his life. IDK exactly what it is going on in his GI track, but this supplement keeps him happy. So I am happy too.
Thanks for the response, @cnd8. I haven’t tried assure guard gold but I have read about it recently and am curious to try in addition to Gut X.
I’ve tried a dozen supplements that I hoped would be our miracle ticket to get him back to 100% and I’ve yet to find it. I was really hoping Forco or Sucralfate would get us there too…
Now I’ll just have to see if I can get him to eat any new supplements I may try…
I understand. Prior to AGG, I had tried Forco, RelyneGI, KER’s Ritetrack, Aloe vera, and a full round of Gastrogard. Oh, and I also tried MVP Exceed 6-way and Gastro-plex.
Good to hear! Sometimes I wonder if trying different supplements is just a waste of time/money. I suppose its worth it to keep trying. I’ll order AGG and update the thread if I find a miracle.
Were you feeding the sucralfate as close to on an empty stomach as possible? That seems to have made a difference for my horse. I will also say that ulcers don’t have to be epic to cause apparently epic behavior change. Mine only has grade 2 ulcers (which we think are the only issue) and his behavior is very dramatic.
You mention Gut-X - have you tried it yet? I just bought some and will be starting my unhappy horse on it this week.
As a side note, do you live where bot flies are common? I don’t, but my horse came from somewhere where they are common, and his stomach had a bunch of them imbedded in the lining (probably causing some, if not all, of the observed ulcers). I think this is why initial omeprazole treatment was only slightly successful - he needed ivermectin, then drugs for ulcer healing. Fecal counts were clean and I had been holding off worming because I thought it would be hard on his stomach if he did have ulcers. 
Hmm all interesting points…
He is getting the sucralfate in his grain twice daily (Abler granules) so his stomach is pretty empty when he gets it but obviously with grain so not ideal.
Also its abler - so not FDA - I would consider giving him prescription sucralfate which i think is a powder and I could even set it up in tubes to be given before grain.
I haven’t tried GUT - X - curious to try in addition to trying AGG.
This horse has been scoped and had very mild stomach ulcers (a few grade one) - so I dont think bot eggs are an issue? (would they have seen these during the scope)? THe horse is a low shedder and I’ve dewormed him twice yearly since owning him (7 years).
I got prescription sucralfate from the vet in pill form. My horse’s dose is 11 pills twice a day. They dissolve super easily in water, so I add a tiny bit of water to them, mix them into a paste, then mix that into a bit of rice bran meal (not the pellets). Vet said a very small amount of feed with the meds was fine, but to try to feed it away from hay feeds (as much as is realistically possible!). It is basically tasteless so my horse has no problem eating it with the rice bran.
Bots will be seen during a scope, so if he has been scoped recently and they weren’t present, then they are probably not a problem. Typically, they will be ingested as eggs on the legs in late summer and end up in the stomach as larvae in fall. They overwinter in the stomach, then shed 8-10 months later in the feces, at which point they pupate before emerging as flies. When they are in the stomach, they can be killed with ivermectin, so if you do a early winter worming (e.g. December/January) using ivermectin, that will usually get them.
Grain? Possibly not the best choice at this point until you’ve got his guts happier.
Also, sucralfate in feed is not your best choice even if it’s hay pellets.
When my horse was at her worst, I would dose her first thing in the am and then in the evening after she’d been in the crossties for a while and then would have a bit of time afterwards for the drug to do its thing before she’d get her night meal.
slightly OT, but can anyone tell me why Succeed is sooooo expensive?
I think I may have commented earlier in the thread, but have you asked your vet about treating with misoprostol? Metronidazole for the diarrhea? A fecal transfer? I think if these problems persist long term, the likelihood of a supplement curing it is minimal and expensive.
The fecal transfer is nice because, as horses go, it’s pretty inexpensive and it re-populates the gut with good bacteria very efficiently. (And much more effectively than daily probiotics.)
I should note that the fecal water has seemingly gone away on its own. That was unusual and not a typical symptom of his.
I have thought about pulling grain before but this horse is under weight and dropping more and he seems happier eat grain then hay ATM.
I’d also heard that for severe hind gut cases you pull hay and only feed grain?
The idea of keeping him in with no access to food twice a day before dosing him is really difficult.
I moved him this summer so he could live out 24/7 thinking 14+ hours in a stall may have been making him worse? I’m not sure being out has helped at this point and now I’m more limited on what I can give him since he’s out with another horse.
I hope I can find an answer but I’m becoming more skeptical and honestly don’t know what to do with this horse!
In severe cases, you pull “long stem forage,” so in other words, you feed a wet mash of alfalfa pellets for a period of time instead of long stem hay. I fed alfalfa pellet soup for 1 month, soaked alfalfa pellets for 2 more months, and then on month 4 we went to chopped alfalfa, then back onto alfalfa. Grain was fed as normal throughout, but I was on senior feed to help for quick digestion.
@cnd8 - Great to know. My guy is on senior now so hopefully better than other grain options. I’ve had a hard time getting him to eat alfalfa pellets in the past but perhaps if he was feeling better I could. Id have to move him again to accommodate this set up and even then it would be really hard to find a set up that would work.
I also wonder how to avoid relapses in the future when they go back to hay?
I’m also so frustrated by the vets in my area I’ve worked with a handful now and they all continue to insist on omeprazole/succeed which hasn’t proven to address our core issues.
I will definitely ask vet today about fecal transfer, misoprostol, prescription sucralfate, and more.
I had to do the same. I put off the vets’ recommendations to eliminate long stem forage because I board and there was no suitable pasture without hay for him. Finally, I caved and they allowed me to panel in an alley between two pastures so he could be isolated and kept away from hay. He lived in this alley for 1.5 years until I moved to a new barn with individual pastures and plentiful grass.
The vet specialists told me as long as I weaned him back onto alfalfa like I described to you, and he stayed not sick, that he’d be ok with alfalfa (or perennial peanut–the south’s form of alfalfa), timothy, or orchard. Never any coastal varieties, or other varieties for the rest of his life. I believe them because one day he got loose from his pen and got into about one flake of coastal. He had an episode the following day. He just can’t handle it. But, as long as he is on the approved list of hay and AGG, he is 100% normal horse.
Thanks for all of this. I know our hay has been tested but I’m not sure exactly on what type it is. I thought (could be wrong) that coastal hay was unheard of where we are (midwest - hay country) that its mostly timothy/orchard grass etc.
Definitely something for me to look into.
Its interesting that this horse again did better/thrived when he lived about an hour way from where he does now - I guess the hay could be the culprit.
I’m also considering allergy testing to see if there is something that could be reasonably avoided.
If I need to consider moving him again to individual set up and provide my own feed/hay I could I just wish I had a true diagnosis and knew that it would be work!
This horse is also going to be 14 this year and a warhorse from the track - IDK how many sound years he has left to fight for…
You’re right, you probably don’t have to worry about any coastal varieties. You should be good if you do the long stem elimination diet for a while and then add it back in slowly.
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