Looking for help with anxious OTTB

[beowulf]

@The_Pleasant_Pheasant

I know he is going to fixate on the kissing spine, even though he isn’t clinical.

But he IS clinical. All the behavioral and physical symptoms you’ve mentioned are clinical symptoms of KS.

Your chiro has noted SI and back soreness - why wouldn’t you immediately fixate on the KS as a possible cause?

OP, I made it through your whole post wondering when that was going to come up. I wondered a few other things about the management mentioned. Try turning him out in a herd. He is a baby, he needs social time with copacetic herd mates. Involve a professional to help you work through the ground manners problem. Continue treating for ulcers and consider scoping, but remember ulcers don’t resolve well if there is underlying pain.

How about his feet? My experience with OTTBs is they need a multi-pronged approach therapy-wise the first few months after retiring from the track. The track uses up their body hard. Chiro, massage, even some short-term pain relievers, aggressively addressing their hooves, unlimited turnout, and lots of good forage to get them back to feeling their best. It can take years to undo physical damage from racing.

[candyappy]

@OverandOnward

I found that the biggest problem with escalation was the horse fixating on something that had nothing to do with what we were doing. A sight, sound, whatever – he was riveted by something, somewhere, often horizon-gazing at it, and kind of forgot about the work we were doing. It upset him to be brought back to work focus, then he would have real problems with being more anxious over his divided attention.

I found that the biggest challenge and the biggest fix was getting him to pay attention to me at all times while I was with him. Gently but firmly and insistently draw his attention back to me when he was fixating on something else, near or far. Even just a halter shake, a lead line shake, maybe a hand on his halter to move his head and neck. He gets relief from that pressure when he adjusts his attention, and not until then.

And, keep giving him a reason to focus on me. Some task big or small. As tiny as turning back to me while on the ground, as big as making this circle we are riding.

I learned this from a trainer I watch on tube. His teaching is when the horse locks onto something ( other than his rider/ handler) you ask him to do something. Change direction (for example) and it really works. Plus it keeps them from “worrying” about something they think they may see .

[dmveventer]

Fixing his turnout situation would be the first thing on my list. Horses aren’t meant to live alone, and a young, anxious, energetic horse even less so. It may not fix 100% of your problem but I’ve known several horses that showed dramatic improvement with just a better turnout set up. It’s also much cheaper and easier to try than any of the diagnostics you’re considering.

[The_Pleasant_Pheasant]

@beowulf

But he IS clinical. All the behavioral and physical symptoms you’ve mentioned are clinical symptoms of KS.

Your chiro has noted SI and back soreness - why wouldn’t you immediately fixate on the KS as a possible cause?

OP, I made it through your whole post wondering when that was going to come up. I wondered a few other things about the management mentioned. Try turning him out in a herd. He is a baby, he needs social time with copacetic herd mates. Involve a professional to help you work through the ground manners problem. Continue treating for ulcers and consider scoping, but remember ulcers don’t resolve well if there is underlying pain.

How about his feet? My experience with OTTBs is they need a multi-pronged approach therapy-wise the first few months after retiring from the track. The track uses up their body hard. Chiro, massage, even some short-term pain relievers, aggressively addressing their hooves, unlimited turnout, and lots of good forage to get them back to feeling their best. It can take years to undo physical damage from racing.

Entirely fair point. In my mind, while still on my list of differentials, the KS had fallen lower on the list of differentials due to the fact that a week on Bute didn’t provide any change in behavior while the Trazodone completely eliminated the anxiety and misbehavior. When I discussed the Trazodone with the vet, they said it didn’t provide any analgesic effect and therefore wouldn’t mask a pain response, but I could be mistaken on that. I realize though with KS there is a complicated interplay with pain and anxiety. I do appreciate this gut check though, to make sure to keep it more at the forefront rather than let it slide down the list.

Feet are surprisingly good for an OTTB, fronts look to have good angles, hind angles are improving. I will try and get pictures though. He’s on a 4 week cycle to enable us to stay ahead of the angles and make small changes more often. Hoof radiographs are definitely on my list of considerations since what we see from the outside can be completely different than the rads show.

I’ve tried to stay pretty on top of his care throughout his transition off the track, and that’s one of my main reasons for seeking out other opinions. Even though I feel like I’ve ticked most of the traditional boxes (teeth, chiro, turn out, shoeing, saddle fitting, Nexium), something is clearly still not right and it’s my responsibility to him to figure it out. I value the outside perspectives, gut checks, and experiences this forum provides, so it felt like good place to crowd source some information. Each and every response has been very helpful since I find sometimes I can lose perspective and get tunnel minded when in the midst of a problem.

[OverandOnward]

You mentioned chiro, perhaps other bodywork as well. If physical treatment like this has been happening on a regular basis for an extended period, I’d say stop, just for a few months.

At one point in my anxious OTTB’s journey, after over a year of this and that treatment, external, internal, chiro/bodywork, etc., I decided (to myself so no arguments) to stop all of it. He got his feed, basic supplements, long-hour turnout, frequent grooming, and that was it. Just left the poor horse’s body alone to find it’s own way back to normal.

Kind of an overall approach to life developed over adulthood – if something isn’t working, make a change. Don’t stay on that track hoping it will change. It’s already proved out as not the best way forward.

At the end of that period, a lot of his body soreness had gone away. Whatever the cause and the reason, it healed. It hasn’t come back. I think that ‘we’ (the team of practitioners with the best intentions) were over-doing it. I think his body needed to be left alone for a time.

Not that these techniques are not useful in many situations. He may need them again at some point.

But in my horse’s case I think we were trying so hard to find the magic solution, that we tried far too many of them, far too much. We began making it worse rather than better.

[GraceLikeRain]

I’d go for the big low hanging fruit - scope for ulcers, test for Lyme and EPM, x ray all four feet, flexions.

You can’t expect a behavior change if there’s discomfort so I’d rule in or out the biggest culprits first.

Group turnout and ensuring ample forage also seem like management low fruit.

[OverandOnward]

Would add a back x-ray to that list, for KS. It’s not that expensive. Not doing it leaves it as a still open question.

[beowulf]

@The_Pleasant_Pheasant

the KS had fallen lower on the list of differentials due to the fact that a week on Bute didn’t provide any change in behavior

It won’t with most KS cases. KS affects more than the back, tending to be “systemic” in terms of all around body pain. It is also (typically) bone on bone / joint pain as well as muscle or ligament. Bute is better for muscle and ligament pain IMO. You need heavier hitting class drugs to target KS pain effectively, like Tildren or Osphos. Bute did not help any of the KS horses I’ve owned or worked with. KS horses also seem to have long term “pain memory”, which is probably more overall compensational pain that takes time to go away and unlearn.

@The_Pleasant_Pheasant

When I discussed the Trazodone with the vet, they said it didn’t provide any analgesic effect and therefore wouldn’t mask a pain response,

It masks the anxiety component of pain

@The_Pleasant_Pheasant

Feet are surprisingly good for an OTTB,

TBs have great feet, it’s the farriers at the track that ruin them. Good to hear you are one the right track there (no pun intended).

@The_Pleasant_Pheasant

I’ve tried to stay pretty on top of his care throughout his transition off the track, and that’s one of my main reasons for seeking out other opinions.

It seems that way from your posts. OTTBs are complicated and unraveling their physical issues can be like peeling back layers in an onion. If it was easy, everyone would have an OTTB.

@The_Pleasant_Pheasant

Each and every response has been very helpful since I find sometimes I can lose perspective and get tunnel minded when in the midst of a problem.

Just about everyone is guilty of this.

When it comes to pain and/or behavioral I am a strong ‘Occam’s Razor’ proponent. It can be easy to overlook things while you are in the center of the storm.

[fivestrideline]

@The_Pleasant_Pheasant

the KS had fallen lower on the list of differentials due to the fact that a week on Bute didn’t provide any change in behavior while the Trazodone completely eliminated the anxiety and misbehavior.

Bute often won’t touch KS pain - gabapentin might, but not always. Depends on the pain.

Trazodone will stomp down the anxiety/reactivity that horses with KS often have in response to the random shooting/pinching pain that occurs. It will do the same for almost sources of anxiety.

Spinal pain and the touching processes can give a horse a lot of generalized body pain and therefore the tiniest tolerance for further discomfort - physical and mental. You’re likely dealing with an “all of the above” situation here - I’d start with the obvious culprits and go from there. I’d scope, X-ray his feet, pull blood for Lyme/EPM, and try to get him a turnout buddy or two. You’ll come out cheaper than randomly xraying stuff, and can at least cross some things off the list.

[piperluvshorses]

I would love to find out what happened at the Vet appointment - was anything found or any updates. Such an interesting case.