Looking for insight with boarding trade offs

[clamchowder]

I did ask during tour, and answer was satisfactory - “a bit around the gates when it’s very rainy”, which is expected. Barn owner pointed out areas where there might be mud, and general mitigation plan when it happened (dumping new material by gates, etc.).

However, I’d been told at current barn that it “was only muddy for a few weeks in spring”, when it has realistically been more like almost 3/4 of the year (and this is still what is said to new boarders who mostly come during the summer months). I ask a lot of questions but take responses with a grain of salt now. I don’t want to say it’s intentional deception, because it appears some people are not the best narrators and sometimes do this with all kinds of things, not just mud, but also how often horses break out, or when hay is finished, etc. I’ve also had current barn say “that has never happened before” when I can see photos of the same situations stretching back at least five years.

New barn: I did see some surfacing, especially attached to stalls! Driveway appears fully gravel and ring footing is better. Placement is high on the property rather than midway down small hill. I sleuthed every photo I could find anywhere of potential new barn but unfortunately none show the turnouts clearly in winter (there are not a lot of pictures generally as it’s a private barn and no public page - there may be more available friends-only from various prior boarders)

[clamchowder]

Update: I spoke to both current boarders, and a prior boarder (I did not ask for prior boarder but owner offered). I had lovely chats with all three who seem like nice people, which also helped to get an idea of the vibe.

Current boarders stated mud is limited in winter to gates, and that sometimes horses may not be turned out for a few days after a long, heavy rain in late winter/early spring to save the footing, but generally drain well (this has been the worst type of weather - heavy rain in March/early April). Prior boarder (there through last summer/fall/winter, left because she moved out of state) said largely the same. I asked specifically about turnout mud and whether the horses stayed in often during the winter to prompt these responses. I asked about attached drylots and all said they are surfaced and not muddy.

Other questions I asked: All said they had never been unable to get down driveway. Two of the three used the trails during winter and said there are several nearby riders who also ride throughout winter. They said the trails are largely usable without winter interruption and found them to be pleasant trails (but warned me about a nearby ostrich farm visible from the trail in case I wanted to hand walk by this the first few times).

[atr]

Your current situation sounds hellish both for you and your horses, TBH.

I’d be moving. Especially with good trails and better ring footing in the mix.

[furlong47]

New barn sounded like a clear winner to me even before you got the additional information.

[RMJacobs]

@clamchowder

but warned me about a nearby ostrich farm visible from the trail in case I wanted to hand walk by this the first few times

My husband was president of the HOA at our horse property. One day an acquaintance called and said “you guys have to do something about the alpacas!” She was both a neighbor and a coworker. Evidently her horse had a meltdown where our community bridle trail went past a pasture full of alpacas. I asked her what she expected to be done, and she said they shouldn’t be allowed. Well, that wasn’t going to fly. She got mad when I suggested she should be able to desensitize her horses to them. I even offered use of my round pen for that, as it was next to another neighbor with alpacas. My horses were buddies with the alpacas, although they’d been a little snorty when we first moved them in.

I was surprised as this woman was usually a good horseman. She got over it a few days later, but I don’t remember her ever apologizing for yelling at me.

Rebecca

[quietann]

I am in MA, too… Mud is just becoming a huge thing here, because our winters are getting warmer, snow cover does not last, and we often get mud over frozen ground, which is treacherous.

It really sounds like the second barn matches your needs better. It’s true that you won’t know about the mud until mud season, but the BO is at least cognizant of mud mitigation.

For comparison’s sake, my retired mare is in a roughly 1000 square foot space, out 24/7 with a 12 by 16 shed. The shed is on a 24 by 30 foot stone dust pad that doesn’t really get muddy; the rest of the space can get quite gross but the BO has done a lot to improve drainage, and manure gets picked daily. I would like her to have more space, but compared to a lot of places, this is sizeable. There is some grass pasture available at some times of the year, but mare is metabolic so she doesn’t get turned out on grass. I pay very low 4 figures; the facility also has great trails access, a full size outdoor sand dressage court, and a small barn with 4 stalls that are used only for short periods (like when the vet or farrier comes.) Or VERY bad weather; in 2 years, my mare has spent exactly one night in the barn, when the windchill was -32 F.

[Libby2563]

@trubandloki

If you can’t talk to someone, go looking at their facebook (or any of their social media) page and see if there are any photos from during the mud season.

Good suggestion, and you could also check Google Earth Pro for satellite views from different times of the year.

From everything you have said so far, I would move yesterday. Even if the mud situation somehow ends up being the same (which sounds unlikely), the runs, safe fencing, and trail access would clinch it for me. I know it’s hard to take that step into the unknown but I suspect you’ll find yourself wondering what took you so long!

[flypony74]

It sounds like the mud situation where you are is pretty bad, so even if the new place gets muddy, do you think it would be any worse? If you take a look at the new barn again, try to notice if they have any grading or drainage work done, and/or if they maintain the footing in the high traffic areas in turnout (or is it just dirt?). That may give you an idea of the mud factor but like you said, you don’t really know until you’ve been there for a bit.

So the mud consideration aside, hands down my choice would be the new barn, Having the ability to move around is so beneficial for horses, and it sounds like you ride a lot so they’ll still stay pretty active. And the access to good hacking may offset some of the turnout mileage…hacking is huge for me. It is nice to have sensible horses but safer fencing would be a significant selling point for me. The biggest thing for me would be the hay situation, because no hay for 12 hours at your current barn would be an absolute deal-killer for me. Even if the new barn simply attempts to do 24/7 hay and they run out of hay 2 hours before feeding time, that is a whole lot better than 12 hours. Since it sounds like you are an active rider you may find some good hacking buddies at the new barn, which is always fun!

[clamchowder]

It sounds like the mud situation where you are is pretty bad, so even if the new place gets muddy, do you think it would be any worse?

This is what I tell myself constantly, and then I get afraid. What if it IS worse? I’ve told myself I am not a hostage and I can always leave a new place if something appalling crops up, difficult as it is and dwindling as options are. I could always go a few hours north and probably find something better in a true disaster where horses just needed to move.

I’ve asked my non-horsey husband, who doesn’t have a lot of horse-keeping knowledge but is a good sport and has been to the current barn enough times over the years to have some idea. He generally feels it has deteriorated significantly since we moved in, from no-frills to no-fences, as he called it. He also reminded me of several extremely frustrating situations aside from the mud that have occurred over the past few years and about which I had always been diplomatic but internally fairly upset. Of course I remember these happening and how annoyed I was but being reminded of all of them at once was eye-opening.

[candyappy]

I think most everyone who has horses deals with at least a little mud in certain spots, under the right weather conditions.

Sounds like barn #2 is a pretty decent option based on current and past boarders answers.

[BeeHoney]

The new barn sounds like it would be worth the extra $150/mo. Current barn seems to have some significant issues that are affecting your horses’ health.

[MorganMaresVT]

@Libby2563

Good suggestion, and you could also check Google Earth Pro for satellite views from different times of the year.

I was also thinking that doing a little Facebook/IG stalking of boarders might show you what their horses were dealing with during mud season.

[SharonA1]

OP, it sounds like Barn #2 is a very strong contender, but just wondering if you have checked into “Looking for Board/Horse Boarding, Massachusetts,” at:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1569709986616156

It can be a good resource.

[findeight]

With many decades of boarding barn experience, sounds like you can move now where you have choices or you can get a nasty surprise and be scrambling to find another barn later.

IME when barns start deteriorating as you are describing, you can assume they are running out of money and/or know something you don’t about the barns future. If there is a future beyond the short term. IME it has been landlord sold the property or they own it and already have a buyer lined up or they are behind in taxes, maybe they are looking at bankruptcy or are about to divorce and let the courts split the assets. BTDT including being locked out when the bank seized the property. In one case the ATF seized the property a week after I bailed.

All the signs were there, I just had not learned what they were pointing towards plus made the naive mistake of trusting them to give boarders a heads up.

They are not your friends, it is a business, likely a failing business.

M.O.V.E.

[clamchowder]

I have an update for everyone. At a vet visit this week for some issues with my older boy (we suspect sticky stifles), it was recommended he not be stalled for any length of time. The vet indicated this may resolve the issues without the need for other intervention. The ability to put in some miles with hill work on a regular schedule should also benefit him, according to my reading.

With this information, I’ve finalized my decision to move forward with new barn. It is very scary but I’m hoping this leap is a good move for us and ushers in a new era.

[FromTheGalaxy]

Keep us updated with how the move goes! Good luck!

[cattywampus]

The ATF seized the property?!

[findeight]

Yup. True story.

That was after I left and hauled a couple of other horses out…at night when they were out of town. Everybody was paid up until the end the month, about 3 1/2 weeks out. Those who stayed had prove ownership to remove their horses and stuff. We never heard a word about not giving 30 days notice, guess they used up their daily one phone call on their lawyers.

Had to prove ownership of mine at another place that was seized either by the mortgage lender or the County for back taxes or maybe it was the bankruptcy folks?

[clamchowder]

I wanted to update everyone as I have a few months in the new barn. I am elated. We had our best month mileage wise last month and I am routinely getting in several miles of trot sets after work, with long rides often both weekend days.

I ended up moving earlier than initially planned due to a rather heavy atmosphere after I gave notice. There were a few contributing factors, such as the barn owner’s son becoming unbearably aggressive and rude (I do not believe this was due to notice, as he had always been prickly and very often inebriated at all times of day, but it crossed the line for me and we moved the next week as I was able to move in early). I feel I can exhale. I am often the only one at the barn, or others will drop in for a few minutes as we all go about our things and chat if in the same area (or we plan to meet for a ride), but we are all working adults, some with children, and variable schedules/time availability. I no longer feel like someone is watching me from nearby houses, ready to spring out as soon as I arrive no matter when that is. It has been wonderful having time in the barn with my boys without needing to be “on”.

I have met many people to ride with, both from the barn/surrounding properties adjacent to the trail system and to trailer out to nearby trailheads. The barn owner and other boarders are active riders and we often ride out in pairs or small groups each weekend. We went out today, yesterday, and last weekend. I’m hoping we can get in a number of beach days this winter! It is just so fun being able to ride with other people. I’m not an extroverted person, but it’s nice having others to chat with, bounce around training ideas in technical trail sections or greenie moments of uncertainty, and lend bravery if needed (to horse or human).

The horses are doing well - still settling in, but used to their new routine and seem happy. It is a nice, quiet place and fairly well centered around the barn. My six-year-old has recently regressed a bit in his ring skills (he perhaps decided the trail life is for him, and ring be damned), but I had a trainer out last week and I went through the skills and training suggestions the next three days solo with some decent success, and the day after those with no antics whatsoever, so hopefully we have a reset. The trainer said this is probably due to becoming more settled and feeling comfortable enough to be extra opinionated, and is not without precedent, so I expect we’ll work through this soon enough. I significantly prioritize trail suitability over ringwork, so neither of my horses are ring superstars but I do expect every horse to be able to briefly lunge and ride through three paces in both directions without fanfare or argument (health permitting, of course).

Thank you to everyone who helped make this decision. I am very happy with my choice and looking forward to the rest of fall, winter, and beyond.

[findeight]

@clamchowder

do not believe this was due to notice, as he had always been prickly and very often inebriated at all times of day

There you go. Have mentioned many times how often in my boarding barn journey substance abuse was a big part of the slow collapse of a barns culture and operation.

If we have a friend, family member or co worker who behaves erratically/irrationally and is becoming increasingly undependable? Our thoughts usually go right to substance abuse and/or mental health challenges. Yet if it is somebody who we pay to have care custody and control of our horses? We make excuses for their behavior and even defend the lapses in judgement and care.

Go figure. Glad she is out of there.