Looking for that facility which rescues foals.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Victorious;7707116]
I actually do know this woman and I can tell you all this-she is not living high on the horse, or channeling donations to fund a lavish lifestyle. She lives in a very small, very old log cabin that has the foal barn attached. She dismantled the other two barns that were tear downs for the highway dept. and reconstructed them on her 2acres. There is nothing glamorous at all about the facility. It is very humble. I have never had a foal from her, or gone with her to pick them up, but I do know that she has actually witnessed one of the farms throwing an induced labor foal on a manure pit to die. I have no clue where in KY she gets them, but why don’t you call her and ask if you are curious? I have always found her to be willing to chat about all of it. I tend to throw her a bone for her short comings, because she more than makes up for it in her love of the animal. I couldn’t do what she does, every day of the year. She loves horses and is pretty knowledgable. Call her and ask her about the foals. Don’t listen to hearsay and speculation. You won’t know anything until you go to the source.[/QUOTE]

Pardon the cynicism that comes with age…but if she’s printing one thing on her website, she certainly isn’t going to tell me over the phone that information is made-up.

If this is indeed happening on such a large scale, I would be the first to point my finger at the TB industry…but I would need to take more than one woman’s word for it.

[back_in_the_saddle]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7706728]
You’ve been to this rescue? You know the lady that runs it? [/QUOTE]

Nope. I was responding to the post about this person making a good living off of the rescue. Logic says you won’t make a good living selling foals for 100-300 each after spending money buying and feeding 150+ foals milk replacer. The math does not equal a good living.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=back in the saddle;7707198]
Nope. I was responding to the post about this person making a good living off of the rescue. Logic says you won’t make a good living selling foals for 100-300 each after spending money buying and feeding 150+ foals milk replacer. The math does not equal a good living.[/QUOTE]

I doubt she is getting rich either. But if she is living modestly, maybe she is making enough. That is not my beef. Mine is simply making the TB racing/breeding world to be some sort of monster.

I really don’t think it’s like that…

[omare]

http://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/nurse-mares-four-legged-mary-poppins-to-the-rescue/

Here is an that refers to a Ohio placement center for the foals one nurse mare business owner uses for the ones he does not place , but does not sound like he dumps them. However the comments make the issue as clear as mud as to how wide a foal dumping practice there is …

[Kyzteke]

No, it doesn’t mention foal dumping, but it makes it pretty clear that nurse mare use IS the exception, not the rule. This one company has sent out 26 mares w/requests for 60 more. So 86 requests total. I know there are TB farms in KY that can house 200 mares…so I’m thinking if it was “routine” he’d be sending out 100’s…1000’s even!

However, now one can induce lactation in most mares using hormone therapy. Of course the milk has no colostrum, but it IS milk.

Last Chance has posts of 50 some foals and suggests this is just one haul from the Nurse Mare industry…I just find that hard to believe. Maybe I’m just being unrealistic.

[stoicfish]

[QUOTE=JoZ;7707065]
I have a completely unproven (but informed) suspicion that some of the farms in Canada and northern United States that lost their PMU contract are still breeding and shipping foals to be “rescued” in the United States. Some of the rescues called them PMU foals for several years after the change in the industry. For those that are not aware, PMU foals can no longer be sold through rescues. Not to mention the numbers have been greatly reduced, and are limited to farms that have other outlets for selling the foals.

Finally information and people who knew what they were talking about caught up with them. In other words, the veracity of their PMU claims started to be questioned. And, oddly, the groups of foals suddenly became nursemare foals. It left me scratching my head.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know of any PMU operations that just kept their herds to breed foals for sale. Breeding for meat horses is legal in Canada so if they wanted to make money, that would be the way to go, sell a fat yearling, not to feed $60 round bales to mares for 8 months of winter to sell a $100 foal.

The sad thing is, the majority of these foals are probably just bad management and people that are breeding horses with no purpose. Greedy people with no ethics at least use some type of logic when it comes to money, many people breed for no reason and have no plans for care or sales.

Horses deserve so much better.

[Iron_Horse_Farm]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7707182]
Pardon the cynicism that comes with age…but if she’s printing one thing on her website, she certainly isn’t going to tell me over the phone that information is made-up.

If this is indeed happening on such a large scale, I would be the first to point my finger at the TB industry…but I would need to take more than one woman’s word for it.[/QUOTE]

I guess I must be invisible, because my replies are being ignored.

Been to LCC. This year.

Got a foal there. He was #162 of the year.

When I needed a mare for my foal that had been rejected by his dam, Rood and Riddle gave me an entire page printout of nursemare farms. Most had already leased out all of their mares by this time since it was June. The average was $2500 to lease the mare and she had to be returned bred - it didn’t matter to what.

[Iron_Horse_Farm]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7708457]
No, it doesn’t mention foal dumping, but it makes it pretty clear that nurse mare use IS the exception, not the rule. This one company has sent out 26 mares w/requests for 60 more. So 86 requests total. I know there are TB farms in KY that can house 200 mares…so I’m thinking if it was “routine” he’d be sending out 100’s…1000’s even!

It is routine. But that one farm isn’t going to supply all of them.

However, now one can induce lactation in most mares using hormone therapy. Of course the milk has no colostrum, but it IS milk.

That simply isn’t done in the TB world. A nursemare will almost always accept another foal, so why try to bring in a dry mare with drugs?

Last Chance has posts of 50 some foals and suggests this is just one haul from the Nurse Mare industry…I just find that hard to believe. Maybe I’m just being unrealistic.[/QUOTE]

You are being unrealistic.

[Appsolute]

Does anyone know of any nurse mare farms that have websites? I would love to read about their services, breeding practices etc - from the “horse’s mouth” so to speak.

Only problem is, I can’t really find much online - just various rescues and other networking for “nurse mare foals”.

If the industry is on the up and up, why does it appear to be so “underground”?

Just a few questions - if not from nurse mare farms, where are these very young foals coming from?

It would be interesting to see a break down of what industries use nurse mare the most. Is it sport horses? QH breeders? TB breeders?

The Paulick report article made it pretty clear that at least one nurse mare foal farm has many clients in the racing industry - and does send some of their foals to LCC.

[QUOTE=Iron Horse Farm;7708836]

When I needed a mare for my foal that had been rejected by his dam, Rood and Riddle gave me an entire page printout of nursemare farms. Most had already leased out all of their mares by this time since it was June. The average was $2500 to lease the mare and she had to be returned bred - it didn’t matter to what.[/QUOTE]

I have read this before - and it seems to be the case that many nurse mare foals are “unknown mutts”. Why is this okay? Why is this acceptable for some nurse mare farms?

I think we all agree, that no horse should be bred without a clear plan for the foal. So, why aren’t “nurse mares” of distinguished breeding or accomplishments? Why are the producing foals bred to who knows what stallion?

[Appsolute]

Hum - and “The Horse” is not known for being a sensationalist rag, they have this little bit on nurse mares:

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/14595/nurse-mares-for-hire

Val Murrell, of Clear Creek Stud near Folsom, La.[racing TB breeder], said the nurse mare is an invaluable part of raising foals. “They raise the foals really well and take a lot of the stress off the dams,” said Murrell, who has ready access to about five nurse mares. "If the foals are weaned early, then it is more likely the mare will conceive the next year. I’m surprised more people don’t use them."

So - there we have one breeder who seems to think utilizing a nurse mare as a means to get his TB mare pregnant sooner is reasonable.

In addition to expenses, it is also important the mares are returned in foal. If the nurse mare does not produce a foal of her own she is unable to produce enough milk to nourish a foal in need.

“If the mares don’t come back in foal, then it’s another two years before they can be leased out again,” Davis said. “Nobody wins in that situation. It leaves them with a smaller supply and us with the decision of whether to sell the mare or pay to get her in foal.”

And evidence that the breeding of next years crop of “nurse mare foals” really doesn’t matter much.

The flip side to the nurse mare business is the question of what happens to the foal produced by the nurse mare.

“We don’t have any trouble finding homes for the foals,” Davis said. “A lot of people are interested in adopting these foals. If they aren’t adopted, we will raise them up.”

Nurse mare foals aren’t immediately taken away from their mothers. It is vital these foals have access to colostrum as soon as they are born. The foals remain with their mothers between three and four days before the mother is taken away.

REALLY? There is that big of a market for grade foals - unknown breeding, who have been bottle raised since a few days old. Oh, and for the ones that don’t get snapped up by new buyers - well then there are “rescues” that will take them.

“These foals make really good pets”

I always try to keep the fillies and usually sell the colts at auction or sell them privately."

"If the nurse mare supplier is unable to care for the orphaned foal, places like Kenneth Holland’s Casey Creek Horse Rescue and Adoption…

Holland, who said he works with five Kentucky nurse mare farms, takes in between 75 to 100 nurse mare foals per year.

I don’t know - it DOES seem very much like the PMU industry to me. Horses bred just because the mare needs to be pregnant. No thought given to the breeding - and it seems that bleeding hearts and “rescues” are the outlet for the foals. “They make good pets?!”

Many scream about back yard breeders cranking out crap foals with not much chance of a bright future - and here we have single farms producing large numbers of grade foals - some going straight to auction.

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

Oh great. Sad to learn this, but glad to hear other sides of the story.

[omare]

I can not understand the economics of using them either just because it is convenient–when yearlings frequently do not sell at the sales for enough to cover the normal cost of raising them (stud fee board vet fees xrays dam’s costs) how do you justify adding $2500 (for the nurse mare) into the cost of raising a thoroughbred unless you have too?

[HorseKrazy]

I, too, wonder why it seems so grad to find these nurse mare farms online-if everything is on the up and up. I’d be able to find a weaning buddy easier…