Lucinda Green Clinic at LMF - October 2023

I had forgotten about the crop on the shoulder thing!, not sure if I always agree with that in every case (I seen many UL riders do this when necessary), but I do understand her point! I teach my low level students to put the reins in one hand quickly and reach back with the crop hand to tap the horse behind the leg - but this is a learned skill and does take good timing and good balance - and requires not relying on the reins so much for “control” – steering with your legs is something Lucinda does emphasize.

I don’t remember the use your legs three times per stride thing, she is full of pithy little bits of wisdom like that; it sounds like what she goes over/emphasizes in each clinic is a little different, and what she teaches each group is as well.

She has such a large toolbox that she can’t possibly teach every little thing she knows to every single group of riders in every clinic. Not enough time!

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I can’t remember if it’s in my notes, but there was one horse in the clinic I audited who had one, and she actually left it because the horse DID go well in it :laughing: She did change some other bits though, and I know the one rider ended up buying the same bit Lucinda put the horse in as it did seem to like it.

My horse is in a universal (2.5 ring) for jumping so I’d probably get switched :joy:

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Is there any way a non-facebooker can see them?

They’re public posts - you should be able to see them even if you’re not logged in to FB.

I get “You must log in to continue”.

Hmmm… maybe Facebook changed its policies. They also discontinued the Notes feature that these were typed in and I had to go back and manually retrieve them. I’ll copy and paste them here with apologies for length!

That’s very kind of you. Thanks.

Wednesday June 13/2018

Clinic groups - 1. Entry; 2. Preliminary; 3. Training; 4. Pre-Training (I fully watched the first three and left partway through PT). Lucky me got to ring crew so I could be right up close!

The first day was working on stadium jumps outside on the grass, using gymnastics and lines.

Lucinda first had riders canter their horses over small single verticals (as a group - riders picked their own fences). She asked them to concentrate on making sure the horses were focused on the fences, and taking the riders to the fences. Then, riders were asked to trot over the verticals and land in trot. This was definitely different for most horses and riders, as we usually ask the horse to land and canter away. Lucinda wanted to ensure that horses were listening and that they had a “stop” button installed. Riders needed to ensure they approached in a slower trot - if they came in too strongly, there was no way they would be able to land in trot. The riders in turn needed to ask for the trot in the air over the fence - a half halt or verbal “whoa” in the air signaled to the horses to wait on landing. If the horse did not respond to this, the riders were to use their bodies and hands to ask more firmly. If the horse continued to land cantering, riders were to ask once very firmly to make the horse trot.

  • Lucinda believes in giving the horse 3 chances - ask over the fence, upon landing, then they get “their teeth all over the field”. She said she thinks many riders try to be too soft but then end up actually making the horse worse, as the horse is never made to do what the rider actually wants, so the horse gets dead to the aid. “Spare the stick and spoil the horse”. There is no point in continuing to ask, ask, ask and never get the proper response, or the horse will never learn what you are asking for.
  • Body position - Lucinda’s first rule is that a horse can jump anything as long as the rider is back in the driver’s seat. Note this doesn’t mean behind the motion - it means the rider is plugged in to the saddle and not ahead of the horse. On some horses, even one inch of the rider’s body forward will cause problems. When we put our weight on the horse’s shoulder, the horse may feel he can’t jump both himself and the rider up, causing run-outs, stops, etc.
  • riders need to make sure the horse has a stop button and a go button
  • the bit is a direct line to the horses brain, therefore riders needs to have a bit the horse likes. Lucinda does not generally like 2-ring or 3-ring bits - she finds 9 out of 10 horses dislike them. Several horses in the clinic had these and some of them she did change out into different bits to try, if the horse appeared to lack steering or otherwise show that he didn’t respond to the 2-ring/3-ring.
  • the rider’s legs are a direct line to the horse’s eyes, so it’s important to keep the horse between both and use the legs to steer. Create a “tube” with the legs. “Cuddle” the horse with your legs - this is different from a “go” leg or a “come up” leg. Cuddling the horse with the leg also prevents hotter horses from squirting forward if the leg is suddenly applied.
  • Ditches/trakehners/looky fences: rider to sit up and back, and slip the reins to let the horse look if they want to. Some riders have the reins too short and are gripping them too hard, so if the horse puts its head down to look (as that’s how they see), the rider will get pulled out of the tack, putting weight on the shoulder. Once this happens, the horse will likely stop as the rider is unbalanced. Slip the reins and kick on. Once the horse starts to jump, he will bring his head up - this causes slack in the reins. At this point the horse can then duck out to the side when he feels the rider’s contact missing. Rider needs to widen hands to maintain contact even with a long rein to give the horse confidence.
  • Trotting vs cantering in to fences: in canter, the horse has 2 hind legs on the ground at once, which means he has more power to stop. Trot breaks up this pattern so only one hind is able to stop at a time, meaning less power. If a horse is “green in brain” and having difficulty with a fence, trot in.
  • One horse in the Training group was quite hot - when doing the “land in trot” exercise, the horse wouldn’t trot in or out from the fence. Lucinda had the rider wait until the rest of the group was done, then allowed this rider and horse to try the exercise without the additional distraction of other horses going in all directions. The rider at first was unable to prevent the horse from cantering in (taking over in front of the fence), however Lucinda told her she needed to stop ask-ask-asking (see above) and MAKE the horse trot/walk/halt and NOT canter - cantering in was not an option. As Lucinda pointed out, if the rider never made the horse trot in when asked, the horse would never learn to settle and just wait - she would always want to take over. After several tries, the rider was able to successfully trot both in and away from the jump much more calmly than at the start. The horse was praised and allowed to take a break when she had given the correct response.
  • Seat: Lucinda described the seat as a 3-pronged plug. The saddle is the outlet, and the crotch and two seatbones are the prongs of the plug. All 3 need to be firmly plugged in to the saddle to keep the hind legs moving and maintain the rider’s balance up off the horse’s shoulders. She sometimes also described this as the rider’s “dressage seat”.
  • Lucinda also had riders identify the two parts of their bodies that they used most to ensure their horses were focused on the fences. Common answers were eyes, hands, seat, legs, and core. She has previously heard a rider say “ankle bones” which at first seems a little strange, but after thinking, makes sense as this is what the rider used to squeeze their horses sides (remember, legs are connected to the horse’s eyes) into the tube
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Thursday June 14/18

The second day of the clinic was focused on XC. Again, I watched the first 3 groups - Entry, Preliminary, and Training (sorry Pre-Training group!).

Lucinda had riders warm up over a few smaller single XC fences at a canter, asking riders to ensure again that the horses were focusing on the jumps and were given plenty of time to see the jump in front of them to start.

Following this, the riders gathered at a “training ditch” - a telephone pole with a small swale on one side. Lucinda had the riders walk over this, beginning with the direction away from the shadow. It was a beautiful sunny day and so this meant (unlike most of day 1) that light/shadows might play an issue in today’s session.

Horses walked back and forth over the ditch. The horse was allowed to look if it wanted (see yesterday’s notes about slipping the reins and rider remaining back in the driver’s seat). Some of the horses wanted to jump or leap over the pole, despite its very small size. These horses were still asked to come back quickly to walk on the landing side.

The reason for walking new/scary fences is to control the horse’s pace,and to counteract the nervous flight instinct. If the horse is anxious, it may rush over the fence and away instinctively. The rider needs to proceed slowly, and also halt in a straight line after, to calm the horse’s nerves and prevent the flight instinct from taking over. Note the halt is not to be done harshly as a punishment. The rider should soften the reins after the jump as a reward, then proceed to come back calmly to a halt.

After the horses were calm over the “training ditch”, they proceeded to the real ditch, remaining at a walk. In the Entry group, three of the horses were greener. The two more experienced horses were used to give leads to the green horses if they weren’t able to get over the ditch after a few tries. Riders again were to ensure their bodies stayed back over the saddle and not to put any weight onto the horse’s shoulders, which could prevent the horse from lifting itself over. All horses were successful in going over the ditch at the walk, and with each further attempt gained more and more confidence. Very shortly after, even the green horses were trotting and cantering happily over the ditch, including with a pole on top to make a trakehner, and with the ditch as part of a line (coop > ditch > coop).

Horses then proceeded to the bank. To begin, the horses were asked to again walk up to and climb onto the bank. At first, many horses banged their legs on the wood side of the bank while they figured out where to put them, but then within another try or two they were much more careful. Horses then walked up onto, then walked off of the bank. Again, the pace was kept deliberately slow to allow the horse to think and process the question. A line at canter incorporating the bank was next - a small coop to start, then up onto the bank, across the bank to the drop off, 2-3 strides to a coop. The more advanced groups added additional jumps after, including a skinny (Prelim and Training). As well, the initial jump up onto the bank was then followed by one stride to a vertical (stadium jump) for all groups.

After introducing the horses to the water, more questions were asked. For the Entry and Training groups, at the edge of the water, 2 barrels were placed with a gap between them. The horses walked up out of the water and through the gap, then in reverse. They trotted through the gap both ways. Then a line was ridden incorporating the gap. Finally, the barrels were then set together so the horses would jump over them. Using this method, all of the green horses confidently jumped the barrels on the first try.

A small log jump was placed into the water complex. In all groups, the horses were asked to trot and then canter into the water, over the log, and out of the water.

Prelim horses were asked to jump coops into and out of the water complex, in addition to the log in the water and the barrels out.

To finish, each rider was able to create her own course, incorporating jumps that hadn’t yet been used. Riders were wearing earpieces so that Lucinda could assist if really needed, but for the most part she wanted them to think for themselves as if they were on course at a show. As well, riders were told to go as fast as they were comfortable, to allow the horses to “run and jump” and enjoy themselves. However, the riders still had to ensure that they were able to balance the gallop before a fence when needed.

  • Lucinda mentioned not to put tape on boots (several riders had taped their horse’s boots). She said it causes rings of pressure, as the tape isn’t as giving. If the boot falls off on course, that is better than it being held in place so firmly by the tape that it would have been better to just come off.
  • Flair nasal strips - she thinks they are useless based on research (and discussion with scientist). Even if the nostrils are held open, the interior respiratory system is the same size and has a limit.
  • She wants boots removed immediately after XC to allow the legs to cool
    • based on study (older? but I think it’s been redone or has been re-looked-at) showing that tendon damage can occur when they get too warm
  • Lucinda doesn’t use bell boots - they tend to trip horses up. She herself had an incident at a major competition where her horse nearly went down at the Normandy Bank. She didn’t know at the time what happened but a witness said the horse caught its own bell boot.
    • if your horse overreaches, discuss with your farrier to see if the hind feet can have the breakover changed to avoid this
  • studs: Lucinda doesn’t ever drill holes for studs until Prelim or after
    • if needed, use one on outside of foot
    • 2 studs (inside and outside) makes the foot stick and stutter in the turns
    • she has reviewed slow motion video of horses with and without studs to see the effect. The un-studded foot has a slight slip (natural) when it contacts the ground. The studs prevent this natural slip and instead cause the foot to catch, which jars the entire body. Around corners, the foot can’t pivot/turn normally - instead she could see it stick-turn-stick-turn-stick-turn which she believes will be quite damaging to the legs
    • she believes the horse needs to be responsible for its own feet
  • Lucinda discussed the importance of feeding the horse so that you can ride it. Don’t feed them rocket fuel to make them fat, or b/c a feed company rep said you need a certain feed if you’re eventing (real examples she’s seen). There is no point in having a fat horse that you can’t ride. Even if they are a little bit skinny, but they are calm and trainable, that is preferable. She mentioned an upper-level rider whose horses are fed forage only until they are trained to Intermediate level (and therefore have reliable training). At that point, she can then add in extra concentrates as needed for stamina/energy/weight, because the proper training is ingrained. Lucinda said these horses often don’t look all that great (while at lower levels) until suddenly they come out looking like the most wonderful animals (trained perfectly and now also fatter).
  • comment made to rider on XC to remember! “Get back! Ride on an American contact and you’ll always be out of the bloody saddle!”. We tend to ride with our reins just a bit (inch or two) short. This prevents us from truly being plugged into the saddle, and also means we can more easily be unseated or our weight shifted forward should the horse need to look at something (or trip, or whatever). We need to lengthen our reins about an inch to allow our bodies to get back into that driver’s seat.
  • Some riders try to ride different seats XC and stadium (ie. deeper seat vs. 2-point). Lucinda does not advocate this, because she believes that in a crucial situation, your body may revert to the wrong seat (ie. on XC, something goes wrong. Your body may tip forward, which is the last thing you want to happen). She uses her XC seat in stadium, along with the slightly longer rein as mentioned above.
  • Phillip Dutton is the best. Don’t try to copy him! Women aren’t strong enough to stand straight up with a long stirrup on XC! Lucinda noticed a few female (American I think?) upper-level riders try this at Rolex a few years ago, and it did not go well. Phillip is tall and much stronger than we are!
  • Tip: when you get in the coffin canter, keep the hind legs moving
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Rereading my notes, I see that Lucinda says no corks until Prelim or above. Interesting, because this year I discovered that my horse REALLY likes the traction of having road studs in all 4 on XC. We’ve had a somewhat wet summer and all my events this year except yesterdays’ have had both stadium on grass (and of course XC).

We for sure would have been slipping without studs in. My horse really does not like the sensation of losing his hind end (I don’t know if it’s related, but he’s rehabbed an SI ligament tear and has some hind end arthritis that is treated). We’re only showing EV85 (Entry in Canada, I think that’s approximately the US BN) but he is a bold XC machine with his road studs in.

Last year, at the same event venue I rode at yesterday, I didn’t put studs in. I felt my horse’s hind end slide just a hair on a turn, very minor, but then he was very sticky the rest of the course, trotting in sections, having to trot a few fences, very hesitant down hills. Yesterday, road studs in, total superstar.

Sorry Lucinda - this horse is getting studded for XC from now on! :smiley:

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I agree with this, actually.

My Prelim mare was barefoot up until age 11 – and she had(has) exceptional feet, and was an ATV in a horse suit. I finally had her shod so I could use studs because I had to scratch a few HT’s when the footing was deep and muddy, but she never slipped barefoot! She was highly unusual, though.

Her daughter has to be shod all around, and I use the appropriate studs when the footing conditions deem it necessary; it really helps her feel secure. She is pretty surefooted (I do a ton of footwork exercises and proprioception exercises and core strengthening exercises with her), but she has a very long back and is slightly downhill, so needs all the help she can get in terms of “rear wheel drive.”

Didn’t Jimmy Wofford say in response to why and when to use studs something to the effect of “when do you want your horse to start slipping? Obviously, I am paraphrasing so someone please correct me with the accurate quote!

Like so many other things with horses, ”it depends…”

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I love the statement she makes about the legs being a direct line to the horse’s eyes. I’m such a visual learner and this was a big lightbulb moment.

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In April the ground was hard and the grass was quite slick. I know some riders did stud (especially with young horses that lacked confidence) – I did not but I learned a alot about my horse while letting him slip here and there. I can be a chronic-overthinker and in the past if a horse slipped it would really rattle me and throw me off the task at hand.

Oooh… my horse is nicknamed “the big orange schoolbus” as he’s built the same way. He also needs to be shod all around. Totally makes sense.

I understand what she’s saying about the natural shear that you want to avoid stress on the joints, but in practice this one needs them to really feel secure. Also I showed 5 times this year and I’m done (plus I think 4 XC schools but I didn’t stud for all of them) so I think the wear and tear is minimal and acceptable since it makes such a difference.

ETA - I missed some of your post in my quote. He’s also long in the back!

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Thank you @SolarFlare, that was interesting. The barrel exercise at the water was very creative, and apparently quite effective.

@SadieRidingHorses, I hope you’ll share your experience in October with us.

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I just wanted to reply and say thank you - you are all amazing! I’ve been making notes and sending screenshots to my poor trainer all day (fortunately, my trainer is awesome, and so we already do some of these exercises over the winter, but still, it’s good to know what to work on).

I will provide a full and comprehensive report!

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This thread is bringing back such great memories! I think in all my years riding, the moment I’m most proud of is from a Lucinda clinic.

I was riding in a prelim ++ group (way above our level at the time but she selected a few of us that were proved to be really gritty triers with brave horses in the first day). For XC we did massive, technical stuff and she pushed us so hard but I came out of it feeling like a lion. On the last day, it was ABSOLUTELY POURING and when I got off after the last exercise, she ran over and gave me a huge hug in the deluge and said, “you rode your heart out and I am so, so chuffed with you!” I cried.

It was just an amazing experience, to know you made such a legend proud and so kind of her to care so much. Have a super time riding with her!

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Can anyone point me to the type of ear piece she uses? The email I just got says “no Bluetooth” but nothing else.