Lunging a yearling???

[JB]

How is teaching them to lunge in the comfort and familiarity of their own barn potentially more dangerous to their legs than going to a show at a strange place with lots of commotion?

I had a far worse experience at a “go to just hang out and sightsee” show when Rio was 2, than he ever even contemplated at home when he learned to “lunge”.

Prepared properly there no reason to expect most yearlings to throw a leg-damaging tantrum when he’s 20’ away from you on a line. And if you have reason to suspect he’ll do something stupid, then prepare him better before asking again, and that might be in another year

I’d MUCH rather have taught a yearling how to trot on a line 20’ away from me trotting a large circle, than chase him in a small round pen where you have almost zero control if he decides to be a snot.

Taught and executed properly, there is no “chasing” a horse on a lunge line

[fordtraktor]

IME, when started young they do not go wacko on the longe, doing walk-halt transitions. It is when you wait until they are 3 and they have strong opinions on their own importance that babies tend to get hurt longeing, taking off at a gallop and whatnot.

Current yearling has now longed 3 times. The first time at the walk only, the second time he trotted a few steps each way, the third time we did a few walk trot walk transitions in a big ring. He has never even trotted at more than a slow medium trot on the line. He is interested and engaged and likes to learn. Something tells me that 15 minutes of his life, total, has not harmed him and can hardly be called “working” a yearling.

Now the AQHA show people work yearlings on the longe, hard. That kind of longeing is what damages colts.

I used to back about a dozen horses a year for clients and strongly prefer well, often-handled ones. Next, I would prefer a blank slate. Last is a poorly handled, spoiled one. I guess there are some people that would prefer a total blank slate horse to a horse with good basics already installed but I can’t imagine why, other than it takes longer so more $$ in their pockets.

I do have some time on my hands and like playing with the youngster every now and then. Nothing wrong with that. Y’all breeders need to have some fools out there like us that want to buy and raise your babies, don’t you? God knows it would be cheaper in the long run to buy a made horse, I just happen to like fooling with the youngsters.

[ne1]

i have started anywhere between 6-12 horses per year for the last 5-6 years, many from our breeding program.

while i wouldn’t suggest there is only one way to skin this cat, this idea of lungeing a yearling would never happen at my place. if it works for you without hurting anything, then great.

the argument around starting them before they get too big later just doesn’t fly for me. i have and will start a big 2yo both on the lunge and get the basics u/s, but for the most part we wait until they are 3. there’s not been one of these which we have started which has been too big for that process not to be smooth, and generally the horses we breed and work with are plenty big enough… just starting a 16.3h 2yo now with no problems.

the three reasons i wouldn’t go near this are:

• this is the young horse period. we handle, halter, lead and pick up feet a bit, but for me this has been plenty sufficient handling for the age. there has never been a need to do more.

• i do not have a comfort level with any kind of this lungeing on their minds and joints, especially in the event something were not to go as planned. i see nothing but downside risk with no upside value which can’t better be achieved later.

• i’m too busy getting the ones that actually need the work done!

again, i fully respect anyone else’s experience which may vary, and i’m glad it works for you, but i don’t like it, don’t need it and won’t go near it.

nick

[stolensilver]

I think people underestimate the pressure going through a horse’s legs on a 15m circle. Its repetitive, unbalanced and damaging. It isn’t the tantrum on the end on the lunge line that causes the damage, its the lungeing itself. I’m careful how much work they do on the lunge when they’re 3 and older. Constant circling is bad for joints and repetitive circling on young, unfinished joints can be catastrophically damaging.

[Home_Again_Farm]

JB, we will just have to agree to disagree. I am with ne1, Siegi and stolensilver on this one.

[fordtraktor]

To be clear, I don’t start them because I think they will get too big later. I start them because I think it is good for them and doesn’t hurt anything. It takes 5 minutes, about 3 times during the yearling year. I’ve got the time, I’m now an ammy with my horses at home so I don’t have the pressures of a training facility any more.

I have seen a couple big 3 year old WBs give trainers trouble when started later. They were not hurt, but ran off with the line to the barn, hit the end of the rope at a gallop, got loose because the cowboy couldn’t hold them, ran through the fence kind of thing where they could have gotten hurt. Scary.

I’ve backed a lot of horses who haven’t seen a longe line before 3 and it was totally fine. A few extra days to introduce the concept and the horse was good to go.

But if OP wants to lightly play with her baby I think it is OK as long as she shortens the duration and intensity of the sessions.

[fordtraktor]

[QUOTE=stolensilver;5756703]
I think people underestimate the pressure going through a horse’s legs on a 15m circle. Its repetitive, unbalanced and damaging. It isn’t the tantrum on the end on the lunge line that causes the damage, its the lungeing itself. I’m careful how much work they do on the lunge when they’re 3 and older. Constant circling is bad for joints and repetitive circling on young, unfinished joints can be catastrophically damaging.[/QUOTE]

Really? Five minutes of walk and halt, a couple times a month is “repetitive, unbalanced and damaging”?

A longe lesson on walking and halting can barely be described as “constant circling,” or circling at all. More like take a few steps, wait, take a few more steps, wait. I think we are all talking past each other.

[stolensilver]

In reality very few people who lunge yearlings do so in walk and halt and only do it for 5 minutes. If they did I wouldn’t be so worried when I hear about people doing it.

[JB]

Goodness who said anything a out a 15m circle? And just how much repetition is there in 5 minutes of mostly walking? Careening around a field with short stops and hard turns is far mor taxing on legs.

Maybe those so against this have only seen it done stupidly - cracking a whip on a short line to get the horse zooming around? lunging a yearling for exercise?

Nobody here is talking about that. Not even remotely.

It’s frustratingto have something like this put down so vehemently when the discussion has been about details far different from what has apparently been seen in real life.

I too would not condone lunging a baby for exercise, or doing it so wrongly he’s out there torquing those legs for 30 minutes at a time 4 days a week.

[fordtraktor]

You and anyone else are welcome to stop by and view my yearling any time you like over a glass of wine. I assure you his longeing, such that it is, is just as described. It will be painfully obvious he has not been trained to go any faster since he is a lazy SOB and vastly prefers “halt” to “walk.”

[JB]

Oooo can I come for the wine?

[fordtraktor]

Most certainly! Always looking for an excuse to drink wine and talk horse!

[Edgewood]

@fordtraktor;5756650

IME, when started young they do not go wacko on the longe, doing walk-halt transitions.

Current yearling has now longed 3 times. The first time at the walk only, the second time he trotted a few steps each way, the third time we did a few walk trot walk transitions in a big ring. He has never even trotted at more than a slow medium trot on the line.

He is interested and engaged and likes to learn. Something tells me that 15 minutes of his life, total, has not harmed him and can hardly be called “working” a yearling.

Fordtractor & JB, I agree with you and do something similar. Again, the sessions are very short, and it is mostly walking and halting. By the 3rd session, they may trot a quarter circle (very LARGE circle and not 15 feet!!). I have never had one “be crazy” and all were very well behaved and enjoyed learning the “game”.

[quote=fordtraktor;5756728]To be clear, I don’t start them because I think they will get too big later. I start them because I think it is good for them and doesn’t hurt anything. It takes 5 minutes, about 3 times during the yearling year. I’ve got the time, I’m now an ammy with my horses at home so I don’t have the pressures of a training facility any more.
.
[/quote]

Again, as above, my lunge walking for about 3 times during the yearling year on a BIG circle I do not think does them harm and none have done anything but learn and listen well.

[stolensilver]

Do you really lunge on bigger than a 15m circle? Most arenas are only 20m wide and I’ve never found a lunge whip that is long enough to be effective at 10m distance (the radius of the 20m circle) so, especially when teaching a horse how to lunge, most people keep the horse within reaching distance of the whip, not to strike them with it but to be able to use it as a touch if the baby needs encouragement to keep up forward motion.

Also if you are going to lunge a horse you should keep yourself fixed in its centre, some texts recommend pivoting on a heel, so that the circle is circular which is not the case if you walk a circle within the circle. Having a circular circle is important as it allows the horse to know where they are supposed to go and so keep their balance and avoid too many corrections from the handler if they deviate from the desired path which can happen if the circle is more like an oval or an octagon.

Edited to add I’m saying 15 metres which is similar to 15 yards. Not 15 feet. You’d (hopefully) never dream of riding a very young horse on a 15 metre circle as its just too small for their balance. IMO the same is true for even younger horses and lungeing.

[Home_Again_Farm]

It’s frustratingto have something like this put down so vehemently when the discussion has been about details far different from what has apparently been seen in real life.

I said we’d have to agree to disagree. Hardly vehement and definitely not putting anyone down. Just gave my own opinion and my reasons for it, (such as it was worth) to the OP’s question. No harm in that. I am not trying to convince you and I hope that is mutual. :winkgrin:

[Edgewood]

@stolensilver;5756822

Do you really lunge on bigger than a 15m circle? Most arenas are only 20m wide and I’ve never found a lunge whip that is long enough to be effective at 10m distance (the radius of the 20m circle) so, especially when teaching a horse how to lunge, most people keep the horse within reaching distance of the whip, not to strike them with it but to be able to use it as a touch if the baby needs encouragement to keep up forward motion.

Also if you are going to lunge a horse you should keep yourself fixed in its centre, some texts recommend pivoting on a heel, so that the circle is circular which is not the case if you walk a circle within the circle. Having a circular circle is important as it allows the horse to know where they are supposed to go and so keep their balance and avoid too many corrections from the handler if they deviate from the desired path which can happen if the circle is more like an oval or an octagon.

Edited to add I’m saying 15 metres which is similar to 15 yards. Not 15 feet. You’d (hopefully) never dream of riding a very young horse on a 15 metre circle as its just too small for their balance. IMO the same is true for even younger horses and lungeing.

My arena is wider than 15 meters, and yes, I do walk around with them. For a trained and older horse (mature) then I would pivot on one foot around the circle. But not for a yearling learning to lunge-walk. Also, I do not need them to be within the whip range, they seem to respect it and thus I do not need to do a circle that is smaller and can use the whole large width of my arena.

I guess to each his own. My yearling are only taught this very lightly (like the 3X that fordtractor mentioned). They behave and none have done anything even remotely close to “wild”.

The do much more torque on their joints in the field than they ever have done in these short lessons.

[fordtraktor]

[QUOTE=stolensilver;5756822]
Do you really lunge on bigger than a 15m circle? Most arenas are only 20m wide and I’ve never found a lunge whip that is long enough to be effective at 10m distance (the radius of the 20m circle) so, especially when teaching a horse how to lunge, most people keep the horse within reaching distance of the whip, not to strike them with it but to be able to use it as a touch if the baby needs encouragement to keep up forward motion.

Also if you are going to lunge a horse you should keep yourself fixed in its centre, some texts recommend pivoting on a heel, so that the circle is circular which is not the case if you walk a circle within the circle. Having a circular circle is important as it allows the horse to know where they are supposed to go and so keep their balance and avoid too many corrections from the handler if they deviate from the desired path which can happen if the circle is more like an oval or an octagon.

Edited to add I’m saying 15 metres which is similar to 15 yards. Not 15 feet. You’d (hopefully) never dream of riding a very young horse on a 15 metre circle as its just too small for their balance. IMO the same is true for even younger horses and lungeing.[/QUOTE]

I just cannot imagine a world in which a yearling could be set out on the end of a rope, one could plant their heel in one spot, and have the horse circle them in a perfect 15 m circle immediately.

So…no. Mine do a track utilizing most of the ring, on about 20 feet of rope. I use the line and whip in the classic triangle form – step in front of the shoulder to whoa, behind to move the horse forward, facing the shoulder at rest. And I walk around with them, readjusting to get them going where I want them to go. Every time they whoa, I reposition myself to optimal position again. As they learn how to respond to me, I have less adjusting to do. When they respond to my position appropriately and can go forward in a nice large circle with no adjustments (and at this point they also have the whole line), as well as whoa when requested, they know what they need to know and are done for the year.

If they went around in a perfect circle from the start, there’d be no point in doing it at all.

[clint]

To each his own, I suppose, but put me in the group with ne1, HAF, et al. And if I ever wavered, I could have an imaginary chat with my vet, with whom I have a very long standing relationship, and visualize his response if I asked him what he thought about lunging yearlings. To that I will add, if I were looking to buy a horse and found out it had been lunged from the time it was a yearling forward, I would run like the wind.

[whbar158]

If 15 minutes of walk and trot on a 20m circle a few times a month cripples a horse then I am not sure they would have held up anyways. When they run around outside they make turns tighter than 15m and much faster than a trot. I totally understand wanting to stay away from one that has been worked every day for 30 mins, but a few times a month lightly. Just as I have no problem with riding a 3 year old w/t/c lightly, I watch horses play much harder than they work. If a horse is started early and slowly I find the basics are much more ingrained than when they are 4 or 5 and are started completely then. The horses learn quickly and many skills are not enforced and holes form later (not always but I find holes more common with those).

[JB]

@stolensilver;5756822

Do you really lunge on bigger than a 15m circle? Most arenas are only 20m wide

You are making some big assumptions here as to who the audience of this board is

My ring is 100’ wide. Most of my personal friends who have their horses at home have a ring that’s either 80’ or 100’ wide, some of them bigger (jealous). Where I boarded for many years, the main ring was a good bit more than 100’ wide, and the secondary rings were at least 100’ if not more, though not as large as the main.

Many people raise youngsters at boarding facilities with nice rings, certainly 100’ or so wide.

Where I boarded my WB during his yearling year, there was a big pasture, and a 200x300’ paddock. He learned to jog in hand, and “lunge” in that paddock.

When he was a long yearling he moved to a small facility that had a medium pasture, and a smaller pasture that was about 100x250 and that’s where he learned to w/t under saddle.

Not everyone has a, or only a, Dressage-size arena We aren’t all Dressage riders

and I’ve never found a lunge whip that is long enough to be effective at 10m distance (the radius of the 20m circle)

Hence the shorter lunge line and walking a large circle. When teaching even an adult horse to lunge, I never let the line out so much that I can’t reach them with the whip while the learning to go is being established at the walk and trot, and since I’m still able to move fast enough, even at the canter.

so, especially when teaching a horse how to lunge, most people keep the horse within reaching distance of the whip, not to strike them with it but to be able to use it as a touch if the baby needs encouragement to keep up forward motion.

I fully agree, and thought that was made clear a few posts ago about walking a large circle with the youngster, but maybe the closeness of the handler was not made clear

Also if you are going to lunge a horse you should keep yourself fixed in its centre, some texts recommend pivoting on a heel, so that the circle is circular which is not the case if you walk a circle within the circle. Having a circular circle is important as it allows the horse to know where they are supposed to go and so keep their balance and avoid too many corrections from the handler if they deviate from the desired path which can happen if the circle is more like an oval or an octagon.

When lunging for training/exercise, I fully agree in most cases (there are always exceptions and I’ve been in a few). But for this purpose, I don’t at all feel it’s necessary to keep feet planted so there is a very defined length of line, as that’s not the point for this purpose.

Edited to add I’m saying 15 metres which is similar to 15 yards. Not 15 feet. You’d (hopefully) never dream of riding a very young horse on a 15 metre circle as its just too small for their balance. IMO the same is true for even younger horses and lungeing.

Yes, I know what 15m is I’d never work a yearling on that small of a circle Not even a green 2yo or 3yo or any green horse regardless of age, though you could progress to some gait at that diameter sooner with the older horse