Lunging a yearling???

[alliekat]

I will chime in again on some new points that have recently been covered. I am a small time breeder. One to two foals tops a year. "I " really enjoy working with them and “I” am one of the people who is proud of the new things my youngsters get to experience. I do all kinds of stuff with them. Yes my youngsters learn how to move in a circle around me at the walk. They learn how to move in and out from me on the circle. I want the youngster to respond to my body aides and not rely on me tugging on the lead rope. I have yet to have one go bonkers while teaching them this. Why? Probably because I have established a trust, respect and a line of communication long before then. When do I start? Day 1. My babies will stand to be showered, clip, load,lead and yes move in a circle around me. Do I consider this lunging? Not really. I consider it the foundation in which lunging will later be built on. My foals live out 24/7. They even eat outside. Do I bring them up everyday and “lesson” them? Nope. In fact my babies probably get less hands on than most peoples but when I do we always try something new. Whether it is walking over a tarp, getting our muzzle trimmed, a quick bath or what have you. Some times we go for trail walks on and off the farm. If there is a local show we go to that and hang out or we even enter the showmanship (western halter class) for fun. Yes my babies are well handled, well behaved and well on their way to becoming a great mount, partner and friend to their new owners. My babies are not spoiled!! I hate that more than a feral baby!! I have yet to have someone that has purchased a horse from me wish they had less exposure. I pride myself and my program on the fact that I am producing horse that I would want to buy if I were in the market for one.
What I love about this forum is all of the different positions and opinions that are expressed. It keeps me thinking and it helps me continue to develop my program and my approach to handling our horses. While I thoroughly enjoy what I do and (only speaking for my own) my horses seem to really enjoy it too, I would never suggest my way is the only way to end up with a solid and safe riding horse. I think everyone is entitled to do what seems to work for them and to keep an open mind when reading others approach to theirs. In the end we all love our horses and want what’s truly best for them.

[rodawn]

Nope, another No-lunger here too. I am completely in agreement with Ne1, Siegi and Stolensilver.

Perhaps the word “lunge” is what is catching everyone here. There’s a difference between lungeing, and what most people on here are describing regarding handling, playing around, and introducing the youngster to new ideas. “Lungeing” by its truest definition is real work, both mentally and physically. True lunge work is technically in-hand work on a very long line involving a lot of movement around the entire arena (both human and horse get a workout), and it is difficult work for an adult horse, let alone a growing youngster whose body and balance is changing practically every week whilst growing. Lungeing is used to teach a horse a new movement. It can be very hard work, and usually requires frequent breaks and rest periods.

Most people posting descriptions of what they’re doing on here are not describing “lungeing” their babies.

So, I guess it is all about definitions.

I play around with my rising 3 year olds and get them into the idea of going around me, maybe 2-3 times a week and that rather quickly makes the horse magically trained for basic lungeing and voice commands enough to throw a saddle on and then accept a rider and then they’re released from in-hand work again until they need to learn a new movement. The youngster is never on the lunge for more than 10 minutes, tops, by timed stopwatch. They learn the commands just fine in very short, sweet episodes.

FWIW, I don’t even ask an ADULT horse to go around endlessly in mind-numbing lungeing circles for many minutes at a time. If I do anything with a long line and me standing on the ground it is because I have a specific purpose of teaching the horse a new movement (I teach a movement first in-hand and then under saddle). IMO, lunging is not a mode of exercise, but rather a mentally stimulating activity, and IMO, it can only be mentally stimulating if the horse is learning something new. It can also be rather exhausting in a very short time-frame.

[PineTreeFarm]

My young horses learn to longe at about 18mos.
First they learn voice commands walk and whoa being led.
All of them caught onto the concept quickly. No arguments.
Next they longe with tack on.

They also get handled enough that they stand quietly to be groomed, see the farrier and the vet and they cross tie. They have had baths and are OK with trimming.

They are turned out 24 x 7. Young horses playing run into each other, buck, rear, spin and run hard. Playing puts much more strain on them then a few minutes on the longe.

If I sent them to the trainer without at least this basic education I’d need to find a new trainer. Send an unhandled big strong 3 year old to the trainer? Not likely.

I agree that in this thread there is a disconnect over the term longe. For hunter people it’s not put a surcingle on, drawreins, tie their head to their chest and pack them into a frame. It’s simply a step towards being backed without resistance. They go on the longe in a natural frame and it’s only for a few minutes at a time. As they get older it can be a form of exercise for some young horses that need the edge off before they are ridden.

[Home_Again_Farm]

surcingle on, drawreins, tie their head to their chest and pack them into a frame.

Pine Tree, we might put on the surcingle, but there will never be draw reins. There will eventually be correctly adjusted sidereins that allow the horse to stretch into a light contact. Their head will never be tied to their chest and they will not be packed into a frame. If you think that is a valid picture of the way a decent dressage trainer starts a horse, you need to meet some different dressage trainers. :winkgrin:

I find this thread funny, as it seems to really underline the amount of misunderstanding there is between the disciplines. Oh well.

[PineTreeFarm]

@Home Again Farm;5758813

Pine Tree, we might put on the surcingle, but there will never be draw reins. There will eventually be correctly adjusted sidereins that allow the horse to stretch into a light contact. Their head will never be tied to their chest and they will not be packed into a frame. If you think that is a valid picture of the way a decent dressage trainer starts a horse, you need to meet some different dressage trainers. :winkgrin:

I find this thread funny, as it seems to really underline the amount of misunderstanding there is between the disciplines. Oh well.

This is why I avoid dressage trainers at all costs LOL.
No misunderstanding here.
YOU need to meet some hunter oriented horse starters. LaurieP can probably help you with that.
Horse needs to learn to carry itself without restraint. Longing helps rowards that goal. It’s not meant to be a precursor to crank and spank for a hunter.
It’s not ‘work’ for a young H/J horse. It is serious ‘work’ for a dressage horse so I can see why there is resistance to the idea.

[mbm]

[QUOTE=stolensilver;5756398]
I’m stunned so many people here work their yearlings. I wouldn’t. Ever. If you speak to most people who back horses they prefer to get a green untouched 3yo than one that has had a lot of work and handling so there’s no advantage to lungeing a yearling. There are a lot of major down sides to it the most obvious of which is too much stress on young joints, tendons and ligaments.

My advice would be to turn your yearling out in a field with a group of friends and let them grow up for another 2 years. 3 is plenty early enough to start training a horse.[/QUOTE]

agree. i will not buy a horse/pony that has been fiddled with - i want them to be as untouched as possible.

it’s hard to do nothing with a baby but that would be my choice…

[wcporter]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;5757630]
Dazednconfused, I think this – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE7auqYFmuo –
is the kind of thing that is making everyone’s head explode. Poor thing already looks lame at the trot.

Don’t know this horse from Adam, googled “yearling longe line futurity” and this is what came up.[/QUOTE]

Good Lord. Who thought THAT was a good class to have at a HS? Seriously…!!!:rolleyes:

[JB]

@PineTreeFarm;5758849

It’s not ‘work’ for a young H/J horse. It is serious ‘work’ for a dressage horse so I can see why there is resistance to the idea.

Perhaps then you have not seen the H/J “trainers” who put horses, even 2yo and 3yo, as well as most adults, into either a neck stretcher or a Pessoa (type) system at least once a week, sometimes twice, and work themn 30-45 minutes a stretch.

Yes, they exist.

Don’t judge an entire discipline based on what may exist in your area. The same will be done to you one day

[Mozart]

Count me as a no…

Another no to lungeing yearling. Can’t really see a point to it. I suppose if the OP really wants to a few minutes here and there at a walk and trot won’t kill the yearling (although I do believe joint damage is cumulative over a horse’s life…why start making withdrawals from that bank account so early?).

Of course your young horse starter does not want you to drop off an unhandled feral 3 yr old…but if they can’t teach a 3 yr old wamblood to lunge because it is too big and strong…you need a new young horse starter…

[stolensilver]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;5757630]
Dazednconfused, I think this – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE7auqYFmuo –
is the kind of thing that is making everyone’s head explode. Poor thing already looks lame at the trot.

Don’t know this horse from Adam, googled “yearling longe line futurity” and this is what came up.[/QUOTE]

Fordtraktor that’s a perfect video to show what is wrong with lungeing a yearling. How many hours of lungeing has it been subjected to to get it ready for the show? And what level of ignorance is there that a 2/10 lame yearling is not only allowed to compete but that also wins the show? That lameness isn’t subtle.

Mozart makes a very good point. Joint damage is cumulative but damage sustained at a young age can occur from less torsion and energy applied to joints in a repetitive manner than when the horse is older.

Why such a hurry to work a baby? Much better to wait and simply teach them manners. It used to be said by the old nags men in the UK in the days when a horses soundness could mean the difference between a family eating or not, that every year a horse was backed before they were 4 years old took 5 years off their working life.

[lauriep]

I know of NO studies that illustrate that a horse’s career is extended by waiting to work it until 4-5 year of age. It isn’t the AGE that a horse is started, but the work which it is subjected to. Of course a young horse who is DRILLED on a regular basis is more subject to injury, either early or late, than one who is not. But careful, slow work, with respect to the growing body, is perfectly appropriate. Much emphasis on careful, slow work.

Why are the Europeans constantly thrown up as the model we should copy? That would completely negate your arguments! How would they be able to not back horses til 4-5, yet we are constantly importing failed jumpers who already have been shown to some level, at the age of 6-7? The math just doesn’t work! Of course they are starting their horses young! Then these horses come over here and either do or don’t stay sound, for whatever reason. But the crux of the matter is that they DO start them young. And they use the walkers constantly. Why is THAT ok, but careful longeing is not? You can’t have it both ways.

And as far as barely touched 3 y.o.s coming in to be broke? No thank you. We get both kinds in and it is ALWAYS easier with the ones who have been handled. A lot. Not spoiled, but confident and trusting.

[siegi_b]

Laurie - so when did you become an expert in European horse raising? When I go home I see pastures full of yearlings and 2-year olds that are being horses, nothing else. They get brought in at the end of their second year and started the following spring. The difference is that the people who call themselves trainers in Europe usually have the schooling, knowledge, and experience to start a young horse properly.

[Home_Again_Farm]

As usual, there seems to be a huge disconnect here that is causing a basic misunderstanding.

There seem to be two different definitions here for longeing. One is the baby longeing that some advocate (mainly walk, slow trot, whoa for brief periods done occasionally). Though I don’t see the point in it, I concede that it probably does little or no harm.

The 2nd definition of longeing would be done differently, with the main purpose teaching forward and would IMHO not be appropriate for yearlings.

I do not send unhandled 3 year olds to my trainer. They all lead well, load and travel well, do all the things expected of civilized horses by the time they are weaned, let alone by the time they are three. They will not have been longed. They all have gone smoothly under saddle, longeing nicely within weeks and going well with a rider within a few additional weeks. I did wait to start my Don Schufro filly who was headed to be over 17h until she was 3 1/2, rather than starting her at 3.

I really don’t think there is a huge disagreement here, if we can eliminate the misunderstood terms and can stop the silly assumptions about disciplines that are not our own. But then, hey, this would lose its entertainment factor, wouldn’t it? :winkgrin::lol::winkgrin:

[Mozart]

@Home Again Farm;5759617

I really don’t think there is a huge disagreement here, if we can eliminate the misunderstood terms and can stop the silly assumptions about disciplines that are not our own. But then, hey, this would lose its entertainment factor, wouldn’t it? :winkgrin::lol::winkgrin:

Oh gee, there you go being all sensible again Mary Lou.

[ise]

LaurieP - I agree with Seigi - the horses in Europe live out until they are 2 1/2 - then brought in to start their preparation for starting their training u/s the following spring. This applies to the young stallions as well. Spring of the 3rd year they are started u/s and free-jumped. This time line has obviously worked for them.

And as Siegi pointed out - to use the title TRAINER in Europe requires that the person has completed a Bereitership and/or competed - not just printed up business cards. It’s a professional title.