Lying about a horse's height....

[Xctrygirl]

Wouldn’t it be awesome if we judged a horse by how well it did it’s job and not about where it’s withers ended in the air?

I bought a fabulous mare who was under 15.1 from Bruce Davidson. The way he looked at me when he got off of her and nonchalantly said “Oh and she’s a bit smaller, but that’s matter to you right?” Not if Mr. World Champion doesn’t care.

She competed over 6 years at Prelim and up. Did 2 3 days with top10 finishes.

I’m 5’8-5’9 on a good day. Never ever had an issue.

I still maintain it’s the size of the barrel and their bodily conformation that should matter most.

I have a genuine 15.3 3/4" horse now, who does 4’ jumper classes with ease.

I sold a 16.3 lovely horse that I would maybe not think he was as likely to clear 2’6" as any of my smaller guys.

Honestly if a buyer really is stuck on the 16 hand thing I kind of wonder how well they will care for a horse if it’s suddenly facing an issue that would affect it’s saleability. Since most horsemen know that 16 hands doesn’t instantly mean they can perform better. Just that buyers will be ok to buy them.

Emily

[Fred]

I think some people are genuinely misinformed, and I think some people genuinely lie about it.
I am also 5’4" so I am a convenient 16h walking measuring stick - not 100% accurate,but very close.
With the youngsters, I tell people how tall the horse is now, how tall the parents are, and what I think the mature height will be.
I emphasise that that is just an educated guess. Right now I have a 16h rising 3 yr old colt. His full brother is 17hh. My guess is that this colt will mature about 16.2 - 16.3. I just hope not bigger!

[HiJumpGrrl]

When we recently moved barns, on the website they talked about how their 18hh QH did this and that. The barn was lovely, but I was skeptical about the 18hh horse. I asked to go in the stall with him. Swear to Dog that sucker is every inch of 18hh (I am 17hh at the top of my head). Biggest QH i’ve ever seen. Just built on a completely different scale.

[4THEHORSES]

Always gotta laugh when my friends 16hh horse is significantly smaller than my confirmed 15h3.

This sort of stuff happens all the time.

Sometimes people are genuinely clueless but when the horse is advertised for sale I do have to wonder whether it’s intentional.

[Bisoux]

Tall rider rant alert… I’m 6’2" (my Dr. has sticked me recently, so I hope that’s accurate) and I find that unless a horse is of substantial/unusually large/slab sided barrel, I have a hard time riding a horse under 16hh. Since 16hh is the most common guesstimate of horses that are being sold by people who don’t care, I’ve wasted a LOT of time going to look at horses that are “big, substantial, tall, robust” etc.

I have also done the get there early, walk up to horse in stall, see it is not as advertised, and then leave before the seller gets there approach. I took to bringing my own stick for a while and measuring the horse while the seller was busy. I completely agree that if someone doesn’t take the time to measure the horse, they can’t be very fastidious about other details like breed, or how much the horse gets fed.

As an aside, and to make a point about perception, my current (16.1hh) horse recently moved from a stall that is up a slight rise from the outdoor walkway to a stall that’s now on level ground. I used to get comments all the time about how big he was from newcomers at the barn, now no one mentions it. wonder how that works…

[horsepoor]

I’m currently horse shopping and have seen seven this go around. None have been smaller than advertised. A couple have been bigger…one was listed as 16.3 (and I was hoping they’d overstated it) and was well over 17 hands when they brought him out. And massive! The trainer even said she put 16.3 as she hates when she goes to look at a horse and it is smaller than listed. And here I am, hating when they are bigger!

I have started asking blanket and girth size now when I inquire as that gives me a better idea of how the horse might fit me. I have short legs and prefer a smaller horse or at least a narrower horse, and that helps give me some added dimension until I actually see and sit on the horse.

[roamingnome]

[QUOTE=Manahmanah;8095187]
Good question. I can’t tell you how many 17+ hand ottbs I’ve seen advertised lately. [/QUOTE]

I thought this when trying an OTTB I now own- advertised as 18h, was hoping at least 17h (I’m tall), because every other horse I’d sat on recently was at least .2 hands shorter than advertised.

Turns out my monster was actually 18.1 when we sticked him, he’d gained .1 hand with his grown-in feet! :eek:

[roamingnome]

[QUOTE=ryansgirl;8096195]
This drives me crazy. I’ve literally sticked hundreds of TB’s at the track over the years and very rarely do I measure one at 17 hands - very rarely (I’d say less than 15 out of hundreds). I laugh when I see people post about their 18-hand TB - sorry folks but I’ve only come across one TB that size in my 35+ years of being involved with horses.[/QUOTE]

Mine is 18.1-sticked by me, former owner and vet all at separate times, advertised as 18h(height they sticked him at right off the track). His two full siblings are barely over 16h though, so even with the official lip tattoo, I still think he’s half elephant

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=NeverTime;8095957]
…
Also, OverandOnward, isn’t 16H actually 64"? I like your idea, but either you mistyped or there’s a good reason you think most horses aren’t the height claimed! ;)[/QUOTE]

You are right! I corrected the post. And yep, there ya go, yet another example of why people like me should not be trusted when it comes to height! :lol:

Actually I must own one of the rarest horses on earth - a horse that is an inch TALLER than the seller said. Based on a properly-done stick measurement, not the bridge of my nose.

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=2horseygirls;8096590]
I have nothing useful to add to any conversation about eventing, but the headline caught my eye, so I thought I would ask my incredibly dumb question.

When does horse height really matter?

I understand different conformation makes horses more or less useful for specific types of riding. I’ve ridden many different sizes (height and width/girth ) of horses in my lessons.

Since I’m 44, a late-in-life rerider, and not competing in anything but staying on :yes:, I’m curious why it is essential to some people to have . _ hh horse?

Thanks in advance for your patience and insight :)[/QUOTE]

IMO, it really depends on the rider. For some riders it does not matter.

In my case my body proportions cause me to feel every inch of difference under 16.1. But I don’t notice as much the height differences in horses 16.1+ . I’m long in the upper leg bone and from hip to shoulder. This means my center of gravity above the horse has a greater range of movement than a rider who is shorter above the horse. The horse tends to be very aware of even slight changes in my upper body position. Even a small change affects a horse’s balance. I’ve envied the forgiveness shorter riders have from those horses!

I find that taller horses tend to move and carry the rider a bit differently. In my case, horses 16.1+ are not nearly so noticing of small movements of my upper body as the shorter horses. My guess is this difference is probably not noticed as much by a shorter rider, but a taller, longer rider will definitely notice the horse noticing.

So it’s not just about the barrel “taking up the leg”. I always feel fairly impatient when someone tries to justify a shorter horse for a taller rider on those grounds alone. It’s what’s going on ABOVE the horse that matters more.

The very tall WFP has some good stuff to say about this. He has been very successful with several shorter horses because his ability to carry his body height above the horse makes it work. Not every rider is as good as he is - especially those who don’t have his level of upper-body fitness.

So I suppose if I go horse-shopping again, before I drive a long way to look I should ask over the phone “and did you use a stick to measure your horse?” If they say “what’s a stick?” I should knock off an inch or so … :winkgrin:

[FatCatFarm]

@OverandOnward;8097569

IMO, it really depends on the rider. For some riders it does not matter.

In my case my body proportions cause me to feel every inch of difference under 16.1. But I don’t notice as much the height differences in horses 16.1+ . I’m long in the upper leg bone and from hip to shoulder. This means my center of gravity above the horse has a greater range of movement than a rider who is shorter above the horse. [B]The horse tends to be very aware of even slight changes in my upper body position. Even a small change affects a horse’s balance. I’ve envied the forgiveness shorter riders have from those horses!

I find that taller horses tend to move and carry the rider a bit differently.[/B] In my case, horses 16.1+ are not nearly so noticing of small movements of my upper body as the shorter horses. My guess is this difference is probably not noticed as much by a shorter rider, but a taller, longer rider will definitely notice the horse noticing.

So it’s not just about the barrel “taking up the leg”. I always feel fairly impatient when someone tries to justify a shorter horse for a taller rider on those grounds alone. It’s what’s going on ABOVE the horse that matters more.

An excellent point. I’m only 5’2" but am long for my size from hip to knee but short waisted. Even so, I can absolutely tell how much my body position and balance affects a smaller horse’s way of going. Which is fine, to me for dressage and endurance/trail riding, like when zinging along on a knee knocker trail where it becomes like pole bending. Versus riding one of my big 16.3 - 17hd draft crosses. My size versus theirs can make dressage a real work out for me, but I feel MUCH more secure jumping my big guys and going cross country on them. If my balance isn’t perfect, I know that I’m unlikely to throw them off balance much and they just keep on keeping on. I’m sure everyone’s mileage varies on this. Smaller horses are fun, like sports cars to be sure. Still, I am big believer in truth in advertising and don’t fudge on size and proportion. My 16.3hd guy has considerably more body mass than my 17hder who is leaner and narrower.

[GotSpots]

I find that the horse’s length of neck and way of going are far more likely to affect how “big” they feel than an inch of height. My upper level horse is 16.1 with big withers - to stand next to him, he seems shorter and by the height of his back, he really is. But he rides “tall” because he’s very long backed and long-necked - there’s a lot in front of you when you gallop down to a big fence. Most people who ride him think he’s 16.2+, and I’ve had folks who are taller than 6’ not have any issue with him. In contrast, I had a really nice youngster I re-sold a couple of years ago who by the stick was taller than my guy, but was so short-coupled he felt like you were sitting on a pony. Horse could jump the moon and was/is extraordinarily athletic, but there was very little between you and his ears and ultimately, I never felt as comfortable on him as I did on a longer backed horse.

[SmartAlex]

I had a nice 15.2 hh mare. But she sticked at 16.0 because of her sharkfin withers which proceed up into a very long necked high headset. Her previous owners caller her “Nessie” after the Loch Ness Monster. Really, she was a refined, “not big” mid 15 hand-ish mare. But you would put the stick on her and go “damn! Where did that come from?” She had this nice level back but it commenced on a completely different level many inches below her wither.

[scubed]

All of my horses are required to fit a 75" blanket properly. For me, that is a much better size gauge than height. I currently own one that is bigger, but she is for sale and wasn’t ever for me to ride anyway.

[stargzng386]

That rule might not always work. I had a 16’3 (sticked by the vet) TB with a very short back that wore a 75 blanket.

[QUOTE=scubed;8098016]
All of my horses are required to fit a 75" blanket properly. For me, that is a much better size gauge than height. I currently own one that is bigger, but she is for sale and wasn’t ever for me to ride anyway.[/QUOTE]

[LittleLegsBigStride]

I ended up having to advertise my 15.3 1/2 hand mare as 16 hands because I had so few people interested. She moves huge, especially for how “little” she is, so still would have done in the hunters. Once she was advertised as 16 hands, I had so many people interested in her. It stinks. I was upfront with everyone that came to ride that yes, she is “only” 15.3 1/2, but moves much, much bigger.

[scubed]

That rule might not always work. I had a 16’3 (sticked by the vet) TB with a very short back that wore a 75 blanket.

Exactly! And that horse was probably short backed and catty, which is exactly the type of ride I like and why I tend to buy smaller horses.

[lovemybays]

In this day and age, everyone wants that ‘dream’ 16hh + horse, preferably 17HH. all these 5’5 girls on 16hh horses being told “You are too tall for your horse” makes me shake my head. Not bashing hunters, but I saw this stuff in hunters long before I started seeing in eventers.

Every time I see someone who is MAYBE 5’3 saying they need a 16.3+ horse to go Novice makes me shake my head. My daughter’s 14.1 Pony can easily jump training fences… and the kid is 5’1 with mile long legs. You don’t need height, you need confirmation and ability. Just because the horse meets your ‘ideal dream height’ does not mean the horse will have confirmation to do what your chosen discipline is.

As far as the lying about height, it is coming from the need to move horses that do not meet ‘ideal’. So to move these horses they are posting fraudulently so that people with more money than brains will come look at their horses or the opposite, not enough money OR BRAINS. Not ethical, but sadly that is what the world is coming to.

I’m 5’9… I’d murder for a 15hander who can make the fences and jump to die for. I’ll take a hony in a heart beat! Less distance to the ground when you take an unplanned dismount. When I bought my new guy I didn’t go looking for 17h (and he is a true 17). I went looking for something that fit what I needed. My other girl is a smidge under 16h. The one I sold in September was 15.2 - 15.3 depending on how she was standing and how you sticked her.

This same unethical behavior is seen in perm carding. I’ve seen a TON of ‘large’ hunter ‘ponies’ that were in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM under 14.2… however they lunge the pony until it is so exhausted that it slumps and it will perm card under. I’m sure I’m not the only one who has seen the 15h ‘perm carded larges’. A 15h hony doesn’t sell… a top of the line large does.

[scubed]

I agree with lovemybays. Keebler’s around 15.2 (I’ve never sticked him because I don’t care! - he fits that 75" blanket just fine). Deltawave is definitely taller than I (I’m 5’3"and she had no trouble riding him training. His current girl is quite tall with long legs and she just moved up to preliminary with him. None of her coaches (including a couple of 4* riders) have said anything about the horse being too small. I also have no idea how tall my current horse is. He was sold as 16.1, but I’m guessing he’s in the 15.3/16 range. I’m more interested in the height of the fence he’s willing to jump and we definitely haven’t reached that yet

[cripplecreekfrm]

10 years ago my farrier told me about a 17.3H TB gelding that he thought I should go look at. I was like there is no that TB is actually that big. Well he was every bit of 17.3H when he was in horrible condition when I took pity and took him home. My vet sticked him because she thought he was taller while she was out giving me her opinion about his future soundness the first week her was here. I know once he got up to weight and was fit he was over 18H. I always felt like a pea on him. I never wanted one that big and would never have another so big. I will stick to my 15.2 - 16h guys.

I do agree that there is a rampant misuse of height. I had a honey that was 14.3H that I was advertising as such. My vet swore he was 14.2H until she sticked him so I think it goes both ways.