Male Equestrians: Where do they come from?

I believe that it is not concern about a breeches wearing man attracting attention of gay men, but of being seen as gay yourself and running across neanderthal-brained redneck bullies.

When I was fox hunting there were many men who would not trailer back and forth wearing their hunt attire, fearing having to stop somewhere along the way in the boonies in the Deep South wearing breeches, boots, and a stock tie.

It was OK to be on the road with horses while dressed like a cowboy.

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It is possible to find men’s breeches that aren’t stretchy tight ones. Polo being an obvious example, a sport dominated by male players

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Consider that many professions have had an exodus of men when women were allowed to compete with them. This happened to the extreme in the teaching and nursing professions. And once the professions were dominated by women, the salaries plummeted.

So I think that fragile masculinity has more to do with it than stretchy breeches or the numbers of gay men.

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And look at football uniforms these days - so tight and stretchy, one can often see the outlines of the guy’s assets - front and rear. (My neighbor’s teenaged son dropped out of football when uniform pants changed to the new materials - he told his father he didn’t want everyone looking at his “parts”).

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Be prepared to clutch your pearls
the barn I volunteer at has kids whose pronouns change from week to week! MUCH more open and diverse thankfully.

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I tend to agree that “fragile masculinity” may be a good part of the reason. Boys who want to ride are teased and chided by other boys who think “real men” play sports like football, baseball, basketball, soccer, etc. Even tennis and golf are more acceptable than equestrian pursuits. Also, many boys don’t want to participate in a sport where they may be “outshown” by girls. It’s one thing to be second string to other guys, but oh, the shame of being bested by a girl. :roll_eyes:

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I’m not sure what your point is. Football uniforms haven’t changed in decades and football is still alive and well in this country.

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The materials have changed - lighter weight, breathable, thin and clingy.

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I kind of feel that it’s just an upper level thing. In the many, many years I’ve been riding, I’ve never seen a Beezie Madden-type female rider at any farm I rode at, either. So if we take all the top riders, male and female, most riders and farms will never see this caliber of rider.

As I read this, I’m probably not making much sense in writing. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

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This sentiment is the biggest load of crap. Every guy I know in the jumpers and eventing (the “brave straight guys” you state) honestly could not care less about that. It is my experience we talk about horses, courses, family, kids, football, hunting, farm maintenance,
 Not once in my life has anybody I know said, “This is why I am doing this.”

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About another team sport that has big male stars.

I happened to see part of a basketball game on TV. I noted the NBA logo that had the player in the short, short pants that basketball players wore when I was a child.

Then I looked at the players, who all wore almost knee length loose shorts.

As a cis-woman I find the old NBA uniform much more enticing than the modern NBA uniform. I have no idea of why they changed, but change they did.

Basketball is the only televised team sport that I almost enjoy watching. However I enjoyed watching it more when they wore the old NBA uniform.

Because men don’t ride for the women. They ride for the horses. They wouldn’t be any good if they didn’t. Your attempted humor is based on a completely false assumption. And it’s an assumption made by women about men in the sport.

Now, in full disclosure, is my girlfriend a horsewoman? Yes. She and I have been friends and competed against each other for 20 years or more and shared a lot of adventures around the US. We understand our love of the training process (and are happiest when all 4 feet are off the ground). Of course she supports me in my training and competition goals as I do her. And face it, it’s nice to compete with family during a week, sharing a common experience.

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I think Alpine’s point, while phrased badly, is still pretty fair. Of course men aren’t getting into horseback riding to find potential partners. But an incidental benefit to straight men involved in the sport is that they are also surrounded mostly by the gender pool they are attracted to given that there are more women involved in the sport (in the h/j scene specifically, not across the sport at large). It isn’t different than going to a college that is 80% women - no one thinks someone is choosing the college based on that, but it absolutely means that the straight men attending have a wider pool of potential partners than the straight women.

There were numerous comments about men not wanting to take part in the sport because of fears it wasn’t masculine, or fears of being teased, but I think its fair to acknowledge that at the end of the day the 17 year old boy doing the bigeq very competitively is spending most of his time surrounded by teenage girls. I have a hard time believing its never crossed a guy’s mind that the ratio is favorable (especially considering how often the inverse is discussed - if you’re female, straight, single and your main hobby involves spending time at a h/j barn
you’re kind of SOL!)

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This reminds me of that old beer commercial with the guy who takes ballet lessons:

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@Libby2563 I can see the humour but I also found that advert rather distressingly sexist - on both sides!

Think of the fuss in Spain after the (male) Boss of the Spanish Football Association (soccer) kissed one of the players on her lips during the award presentation after the Spanish womens team won the World Cup. That hullabaloo completely obscured the success of the Spanish women winning the World Cup for the first time. There is a current debate about “feminism” in Spain and it gets very ill tempered.

But having written that, it occurs to me that the Women’s World Cup probably wasn’t even covered by American media. Sorry, I’ll go away.

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Can I offer a possibly relevant example from the world where I’m a professional (writing)?

Now, writing requires zero strength and balance, other than sitting at the computer. But even in the 1950s, respected critics were saying that women writers weren’t as good as men (!) despite the fact women obviously had authored many classics and bestsellers–i.e., women writers didn’t have the same cache as men, and there have even been experiments when a female, male, or gender-neutral scientific study is submitted to readers, gender biases perceptions of credibility.

Anecdotally, when I was in creative writing classes, there was usually one guy and 12-13 women, and often the teacher would say something about this, even along the lines of “well, at least we have one man”! Ditto many art classes.

The “unicorn” factor alone can result in men being made to feel special.

Finally, there is the unconscious bias that many men may mentor other men in their discipline because they see the guy as needing encouragement (because there aren’t a lot of men) but women may mentor a guy because of the social biases which suggest that women should flatter men’s egos. Women aren’t immune to sexism.

Then, in horse sports, throw in the factor that many men have been more encouraged to be physically active from a young age than women, and physical prowess is more prized in men.

This isn’t saying “men suck,” or an anti-male comment–far from it–it’s saying that there are certain social and cognitive structures that often privilege men, and even childless women, or ruthlessly ambitious women (a good thing, IMHO) may struggle to overcome this.

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Re: horses specifically, I think this can’t be underestimated in terms of success. On a very personal level, all of the top, top equestrians who I respect as riders the most grew up in the saddle. Whether it was Carl Hester riding a donkey when he was two on a tiny little British island, or Michael Jung, more so than the big-name rich people who ride, I think that getting that saddle time is critical, and a guy who grows up with parents who ride and offer encouragement and positive role models, well, it is a big advantage. (Obviously, a big advantage for women riders, too, but I’m just saying for men there is a double-barreled advantage).

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I think that’s not as true as it used to be due to Title IX. But that being said, I believe it is Mary Wanless and probably others who point to the fact that men’s physiology is different and may make riding easier. Flat buttocks and thighs are examples of how men interface with the saddle differently than women.

Muscle strength, including core strength, can be an advantage to a man who knows how to ride. Having feel and applying the aids correctly, and also having the strength not to be pulled or knocked out of position by a less than perfect horse. (Note that I am NOT saying that strength is a substitute for knowledge, experience, or feel.)

Relative size is also an advantage in riding as any 5’ tall woman riding a 17 hand horse can attest.

So men should theoretically be better at riding, as long as they don’t try to substitute strength for ability. The question remains as to why there are so few of them doing it.

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As a subpar 5’1 rider, I definitely feel this and roll my eyes when equally subpar 5’1 people feel that they “need” a 17.2h horse. I am more effective on a 15h horse. 16h tops for me is ideal.

But I will also say that being shorter than even me doesn’t stop Ros Canter from kicking ass on monster 17h+ beasts over 5* eventing courses.

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Or Margie Goldstein Engle in Grand Prix jumping.

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