One thing I wonder about is why pit bulls are allegedly so misidentified only when doing something negative. I have yet to see a breed fan who, when someone shares a PB snuggle picture, say, “You can’t identify pits just based on a picture. I require documented proof before I agree that it is a pit.” You seem to want to challenge ID in only negative cases yet credit any positive to the breed without hesitation. Any time I see a picture of alleged PB with kid, bunny, etc, I wonder where all those people saying pictures are so unreliable are.
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It’s the same old, same old few that ruin it for the many. Some weapons come to mind.
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What the heck is so wrong with an off-leash dog quietly walking with it’s owner. Some think it’s a crime. Flexi leads allow dogs to get a little distance and seem to be acceptable.
dressagetraks where have I posted a picture of a “pit bull” in positive only light and said yes this is %100 a pit bull? In fact I have shared, I believe on this thread, about phenotype expression in mixed breed dogs. Over and over again I have said you cannot just look at a mixed breed dog and guess their breed/genetic makeup accurately. In my personal experience with rescue, there were a litter of puppies that were up for adoption. They all looked like Aussie mixes, yet their mom who the rescue had when the litter was still nursing, looked very bully dog. My family also owned a “hound mix” yet his dam looked like a Golden X and we think his sire (could have had more than one baby daddy there) was a GSD looking dog. Yet Winston looked and sounded very very hound, black and tan with shorter ears though. So I have personal experience that the dogs don’t always look like what their genetic makeup is.
Here is a case that was taken to court and the owners got their dog back after DNA testing showed his genetic makeup had little to no bully in there.
http://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogbl…eturns-ho.html
I also want those who are for BSLs and dislike “pit bulls” realize the part that the media has played in the maligning of the block headed dogs (block headed dogs to me is much more appropriate because that is a physical description of the dog rather than breed identification).
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I wasn’t referring to you, K hall (autocorrect won’t let me do the name with no spaces, sorry). I was thinking of Facebook where I see pictures shared 800 times already almost daily as “proof” of how sweet and foolproof pits are. I read the comments sometimes purely for statistical purposes. Seen lots of people saying how well they know the breed, how it shows just what they are like, etc. Never seen one asking any sort of history for this many steps removed pic or questioning breed. When I refer to PB advocates, I don’t just mean the people who commented here but people I personally know, people in news stories, people on FB (some of whom say they are breed experts), etc. I’m sure not all who say they are breed experts are, but I’m also sure some people are out there swallowing every word they say. The extreme one-sided questioning of pictures as ID is very notable across all those media.
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dressagetraks, that is why I am a proponent of critical research in that you look at the sources of where the information comes from and if that information has credibility and research and facts to back it up. Why I have been giving vacation, CT, Sswor and rugby girl such a hard time here because their posts only relay their beliefs and feelings that are baseless, not backed up with actual research and facts.
I have been married almost 25 yrs to an attorney, he does not deal in “feelings” when making a case, there has to be facts to back the case up. Try arguing with an attorney!! I also have a biology degree, where we did research and sited other research that backed up our findings.
When all of the hoopla started about BSLs and “pit bulls” I went searching for answers. I have read much from The Forgotten Dogs, a book about the Vick dogs, to the actual research on whether or not BSLs are effective. There is a so much information out there that is research and factual based to make a reasoned decision on whether or not BSLs are appropriate, from breed identification to loose dogs to dog fighting etc that is the difficulties in implementing the laws. There are just so many issues that are against BSLs that it is mind boggling that so many still feel strongly they work. Just goes to show how strong biases can be and how stubborn humans can be in the face of change/facts.
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Would also like to add that it is those “pro-pit bull” pics that make it so easy to ID the breed/type from pics of dogs responsible for fatal maulings. It’s the same breed/type of dog, that’s quite clear.
Genetics are indeed funny sometimes. I submit that behavior tendencies may follow phenotype. Physical ability certainly does. There is a certain hind end arrangement in horses that allows for one to jump a big fence–especially when combined with how the neck is set on, proportion of the back. Whether it wants to or not can be another story, but very generally–we all “enjoy” doing that which we are good at.
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Sswor I am sorry but you have no credibility IMO. All of the inflammatory rhetoric you have spouted on this and any other “pit bull” thread is just nonsense, your feelings and beliefs that have not a leg to stand on.
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and yet despite overwhelming lack of evidence, said posters say their view points are “extremely well expressed and supported”.
lol.
yaknow, the media is not a certified, creditable source. linking to a media article does not a study make.
i commend you for plugging away @khall, but you know what they say – “never argue with an idiot – he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.”
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BSL allows dogs to be seized, destroyed prior to ever doing anything wrong. The innocent along with the guilty. I would rather see teeth in legislature against animal abuse that meant something. It’s very easy to malign and pick on how a dog looks rather than what he’s done. Look at poor Nico and his family and the tax bill for 8 months confinement. And something else there are remarkably few fatal dog attacks when compared to the dog population. There are circumstances and circumstances. There are lies, damn lies and statistics.
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I agree beowulf, I do feel a bit justified though to finally have CT and Sswor admit that they do not have any credible sources to back up their beliefs other than watching news reports and of course dogsbite!
I had done all of the research several years ago on BSLs and “pit bulls” and had found it fascinating. Loved reading The Forgotten Dogs and how the Vick dogs changed the perception of fighting dogs. It is the animals that are in danger from humans way more than humans in danger from animals.
It was actually my foster Petunia picture here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=638149312890448&set=pb.100000861553573.-2207520000.1489003017.&type=3&theater
that led me to the research. You can see the scars on her face in this picture, she had them all over her body, more than likely used as a bait dog and breeder. Dog fighting is a real problem locally. I chose Petunia as a foster from a photo snapped by a volunteer, she just tugged at my heart strings in the photo. She is the most stoic of dogs, taking HW treatment and her vetting in stride, but always up for a snuggle. She never met a stranger and was a favorite of the fosters at adoption events. I wanted her to have a “couch” home with people to love and snuggle with on the couch and that is exactly the home she got.
Amen rubles!!
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You know what they say about having to resort to insults, right?
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The abuse you two–khall and beowulf are heaping on me and others is over the top. I don’t really know why you are stooping to such personally verbally insulting attacks. I have been nothing but calm and respectful throughout, to everyone. Speaking of inflammatory rhetoric, you two seem rabid and out for blood and seem to stop at nothing to incessantly hammer home the same points while completely ignoring evidence that is visible to the naked eye, every single day, week, month, year, 20 years worth of attacks. Your studies are fine, what about real life? Why do you ignore the obvious, utterly? You seem blind to anything except that which supports what you want to believe. God bless your passion–how about a little respect and civility?
Seriously–khall, and now the return of beowulf, you two are just straight up rude and mean here. Do you get off on verbally abusing people behind the safety of your computer screen? You seem to. Why can’t you two just discuss the topic? Why are you making this so deeply personal? What did any of us ever do to you?
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no - please tell me. I’ll be sure to direct it to Sswor since many threads ago I was called much worse by them :rolleyes:
sswor, mean? is this mean girls club? i’ve been called a lot of things but “mean” is not one of them. khall has not been mean or rude at all - unless your definition of “mean” and “rude” are alternate definitions and really are just directed to the fact that khall keeps poking niggling holes in your arguments…
no, your handwringing is over the top. talk about inflated hyperbole – “piling on abuse” ?! what? “Verbally insulting attacks”?
newsflash, sswor – disagreeing with someone on a subject is not a personal attack. asking for facts is not a personal attack. however, you calling me “borderline criminal”, “rabid”, “fanatic” and just about every other insult you’ve slung in past threads - that’s okay?
what is ‘mean’ about asking in your 1000s of threads for proof? i got so sick of asking you and CT to provide actual, factual proof that yeah, i started saving my breath. the only thing mean about any of this is that you et all are persecuting an entire group of dog breeds because of your limited view-point and refusal to actually educate yourselves on the restrictions you are staunchly imposing.
maybe instead of reading tabloids, crack open one of the many studies on this subject that do not share or support your view-point in the final analysis.
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Beowulf, I have never insulted you. Not once. I have ignored and let go multiple personal attacks from you for weeks but enough is enough. You are over the top aggressive and angry and you have no right to verbally abuse anyone on this forum.
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Sswor, rude and mean asking you to back up your statements with facts? Saying you have no credibility because you do not have facts to site is not being rude or mean. That is called a teaching moment. You are welcome to have your opinions but when your opinions are only that, not facts, then prepare to be called out for them. I have discussed, sited and backed up my beliefs over and over again. I have personal experience with the bullies or block headed dogs and have done the research to back up my experience with these dogs. They are dogs, all individuals, with pros and cons in them all. Just like any other dog out there. Are some too broken to rescue? Yes, as I have said a few times before. I personally have PTS a PB type dog for being human aggressive. But that is not the norm for the the rest of the ones that I have had experience with. That is not the norm based on the research out there.
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Are you confusing me with someone else? I’ve read this thread from start to finish, as well as several other threads started by you - please, provide me with the evidence that I have launched “multiple personal attacks” on you for “weeks” - “over the top aggressive” “angry” – ?
Asking for proof is not over-the-top aggressive or angry.
I’ve only responded in this thread a handful of time and none except the above/this one were responses to you.
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No, khall, that’s a discussion, which is what I have requested that we all stick to. I suspect you know the difference between a discussion and what I am saying I have had enough of–personal attacks, verbal abuse/ request for a return to civility, respect for your targeted reader. Deflecting won’t work. We all read what we read here.
In any case, peace out on this topic. Next pit bull attack that results in a fatality/disfigurement/critical condition, I will make another thread.
Next personal attack rendered at me or anyone else, I’ll click the report button (or “flag” now?). Best regards.
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Sswor, I have never in any of my responses to any of the pro BSL poster called any of you names or attacked you personally. Calling you not credible is not calling you a name.
Please quote me where I have called any poster I disagree with names.
credible definition of: capable of being believed; believable:
The reason I called you not credible is because you could not back up your inflammatory rhetoric with sited research and facts from credible, fact based sites or organizations.
research definition of: diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in orderto discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc
That is why I do research, to back up my beliefs with facts that are looked at objectively by objective organizations. That is why I have sited ad nauseum CDC, JAVMA, ABA among other credible sources and organizations.
inflammatory definition of: tending to arouse anger, hostility, passion,
rhetoric definition of: the undue use of exaggeration or display;bombast.
discussion definition of" an act or instance of discussing; consideration or examination byargument, comment, etc., especially to explore solutions; informaldebate.
See? Another teachable moment.
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Crap happens. Why search it out and dwell on it.
