I think every jurisdiction needs strictly enforced vicious, and dangerous dog laws. I don’t care what breed, but if your dog attacks and kills other animals off your property, or attacks humans off your property, then it needs to be put down. However, no matter how well enforced, and no matter how many fines are levied, or civil suits are won, the worst, most negligent dog owners still will have uncontrolled, roaming animals that are dangerous.
People, like the idiot owner of the two dogs in the Catalina attack, who have dangerous dogs never believe their dogs are a hazard or should be contained, and innocent people and animals suffer because of it. My guess is that she put her dogs down, trying to mitigate the damages that will come from a civil suit, and I’m hoping it doesn’t work either.
I have seen evidence of the BSL definitely working in Oshawa, Hamilton, Trenton/Belleville and Peterborough.
I agree that there are still some extremely irresponsible owners as well as lawless miscreants that still own and breed pit bulls, if they were to be discovered and reported that would be stopped. Toronto is a big city and I would think it’s incredibly difficult for ACS to fully enforce the pit bull BSL and many would slip through the cracks. I don’t know Toronto very well, but didn’t the BSL did drastically lower the overpopulation numbers and also make a huge dent in the indiscriminate breeding? Please correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t the BSL also drastically reduce the number of pit bull attacks and bites in Toronto as well?
Yes, some are still walking their pit bulls out in public without being properly restrained and muzzled, I saw one here just a few weeks ago, but I see many more that are correctly restrained and muzzled. Of all the male pit bulls I have encountered since the BSL went into effect, only a few were still intact, one that I saw still in tact was also walking without a leash or muzzle and I reported it. Haven’t seen it since then.
I had a large shepherd and did not mind at all when the dangerous dog laws became stricter and wouldn’t have had any problem if there had been a shepherd BSL created. My shepherd was neutered, had a properly contained yard and never left our property without being properly restrained and muzzled.
ETA:
I have also seen pit bulls properly restrained, muzzled, spayed/neutered in Cobourg on a regular basis.
The behaviour of those two pit bulls in that video is very disturbing. Looking beyond what happened to that poor man and his dog, I can’t be the only person that noticed the behaviour that was displayed by those pit bulls when they lost their targets. The smaller one had a grip on the larger one and was not letting go, while the larger one was more intent in trying to find a way to make another attack on the targets than trying to get the small one to let go of him. That dog blocked out the pain from a very aggressive bite in order not to lose his focus on looking for an opening to attack again, he didn’t even fight to get the other dog off of him. Because the little dog lost it’s chance for going after the man and little dog, it lashed out at what was closest, which looks to be a dog that is known to him.
I think most pit bull owners are like this one in the video, they think their pit bull is so well trained and handled that they will never attack. This is where the owners that think they are responsible in fact really aren’t. If a pit bull owner doesn’t realize their dog has a deep seated instinct to attack to maim/kill, when/if a reason or opportunity arises and the fact that these dogs have the mental/physical potential to cause the greatest harm of any dog breed…they are irresponsible owners.
CT the number of Pitbulls in the GTA went down. Pitbull bites went down. Bites/attacks from all other breeds went up. The type of people that did not own a Pitbull for the “wrong reasons” obeyed the rules/laws. They were not the problem in the first place. The type that did own those dogs for the wrong reasons kept on and/or switched to another breed that could be dangerous. Lots of dogs were put down lessening numbers. How is this better? Now we have only BSL in place and more nasty dogs attacking people. If proper dangerous dog laws were put in place as opposed to BSL that should have lowered the number of dangerous dogs regardless of breed and in turn lessened the bite stats.
I have owned Doberman my whole life. It used to be a bit of a rarity to see another Dobe. All of a sudden there are more breeders in Ontario then I have ever seen. Many breeding “Euro” Dobes that are not from proven lines and bred to be big and scary. Temperaments that are sketchy at best. They will sell these dogs to anyone for big bucks. True well informed enthusiasts of the breed like myself would never buy one of these dogs yet they are selling litter after litter to people that could never get a dog from a good breeder. I am worried that this is a growing concern because of BSL. People that owned Pitbulls before are now looking for another breed that will suit their needs.
You say that you would not mind BSL in relation to your GSD. The more that BSL becomes a thing, the more breeds that are on that list the more repercussions there will be for good dog owners. What if your insurance went up? What if you could not live in certain areas unless you did not own one of those breeds? It has the potential to become far reaching. I have 2 intact male Dobes right now. 1 is a 3 yo rescue that will be neutered and the other is 3.5 months old. The pup will stay intact as he will be shown and the health benefits are legit. Should he not be nice enough to show and win then he will still be kept intact until at least 3. My dogs are contained, trained and managed to the nth degree. Why should I be punished in any way just because I own that breed when there are many Golden Retrievers or whatever out there that are a true menace to others?
I continue to fail to see the logic of BSL over strict laws in relation to all breeds of dog.
A golden retriever that is a menace? Wow, is there really one? Maybe, but it’s probably the only one.
If a labrador or Goldie attacked me I think my heart would hurt more than the bite. Those breeds of dogs seem so loving and fun. While I realize any breed of dog can be difficult I think we all “generalize” on certain breeds because that is the behavior we have seen from them. GSD’s are alert and will bite, Border Collies are hyperactive, Great Danes are couch potatoes, JRT’s yap alot, Pit Bulls kill people, etc.
Every dog is an individual, but if enough of them in a breed act a certain way then that is the label that breed wears.
Point was Gestalt that a dangerous dog can be anything. Yes some breeds are predisposed to certain behaviors that put them in that category automatically. My rescue Dobe is one of the “euro” bred monsters. He has been abused and neglected for 3 years. He is still the kindest, sweetest creature despite all that.
I have known quite a few Goldens that were not nice. Certainly they were likely BYB and had useless owners but nonetheless they were more “dangerous” than my Dobes. They make the top 10 on many bite lists.
I do not deny it. The Doberman is not a breed for everyone. They are physically capable of being lethal. TV and movies have long encouraged that thought. I know the breed very well. It is not warranted in my opinion, no. I go out of my way to ensure my Dobes are better then other dogs for that very reason. I do not take them everywhere and subject everyone to them and insist that everyone love them as much as I do but I do insist that they impress on all levels when they are out and about.
Also…red herring…what is your point?
I am a HUGE advocate for very tough laws when it comes to dog ownership. I can’t see how BSL is remotely that when I live in a place where it exists and overall dog bites and attacks are up!
Can’t believe I am jumping back in but have to address this by CT: “I think most pit bull owners are like this one in the video, they think their pit bull is so well trained and handled that they will never attack. This is where the owners that think they are responsible in fact really aren’t. If a pit bull owner doesn’t realize their dog has a deep seated instinct to attack to maim/kill, when/if a reason or opportunity arises and the fact that these dogs have the mental/physical potential to cause the greatest harm of any dog breed…they are irresponsible owners.”
This shows absolutely the bias CT has against the bullies and his/her lack of understanding of dogs in general and inability to see that each dog is an individual and the ONLY reliable indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Not breed, not coat, not color not looks. Which is why BSLs are doomed to fail regardless of what CT believes. Why strong dangerous dog laws are the only appropriate policy to target the problem dogs regardless of breed. Make the owners responsible for their dog’s behavior. Do out reach for education and training, so ALL dogs have a better life.
What I see in dog owners (some, not all) is often a lack of training and lack of understanding of dog behavior. I see out of control dogs (not just the bullies but in any breed) with owners who have no clue. I have had hyper dogs approach my foster (the stafffie) at the vets office, I have had a woman at the vets office talk to my foster in a high pitched voice exciting her to jump up on the woman (I work hard for my dogs to have manners, please don’t undo the training!!) just this weekend at an adoption event watched a foster with small child letting said child hang and approach all the crates in an out of control manner that the dogs were in which can be very scary to some dogs. My foster (not the staffie) was unsettled by the child’s behavior. I see people approach to greet me while I have a dog on leash with their out of control dogs lunging to meet us. This is all a people problem, period. They need laws to help steer them into better behavior and to be better stewards (kind of like seat belt laws) not just targeting one type, which is ineffective to say the least.
This statement is fundamentally false. Breed and/or to lesser extent “type” is a very reliable indicator of future behavior. Everyone who knows anything at all about domestic animal husbandry knows this.
Sswor not according to the dog training experts. There are certain traits that are do follow certain breeds but not in general and especially not is mixed breed dogs.
So I am correct in saying the pit bull BSL did work. I feel bad for the breed and for the responsible owners, but nothing short of the pit bull BSL was going to stop the pit bull attacks and maulings. Nothing else was going to stop the huge overpopulation of pit bulls either.
There will be repercussions for the responsible dog owners with any BSL, but that is a price I am personally willing to pay if it means it will lessen the number of bites and attacks as well as indiscriminate breeding and overpopulation of any breed.
When I first rescued my shepherd back in 2012, my insurance adjuster said not to report I owned what was considered a dangerous dog, this included shepherds, dobes, rotties, etc…, because either the company wouldn’t cover them or premiums would go way up…
To me the woman with the attacking dogs is typical of the owner of aggressive or vicious dogs, and refused to follow leash laws, defends her dogs behavior no matter what the evidence, and usually try to get them back from animal control. If she hadn’t put them down (my guess is she did it to mitigate her legal risk), I bet she would have had them in public off leash again.
I am sick of careless owners of any breed that let their animals run loose, fail to confine properly, and then make excuses when their out of control dog attacks someone, or another animal.
I absolutely do not believe the owners of animals that attack other people or animals, when they say their animal has never shown aggression before. The clueless owners may not notice signs of aggression, or choose to ignore previous incidents, but I doubt that anything happens without a past history of any kind.
These clueless owners most often have a strong history of ignoring their dog’s body language, or worse not even know how to read and interpret dog body language.
And this is why I wish the laws would change to having dog owners charged with a crime. If your dog kills somebody you should be charged with murder. Just like having a gun for protection.
(is this going to be the "thread that never dies?)
