You’re right, SLW, so the woods are pretty much out then, since they are on higher ground than the creek and slope slightly downward. Looks like it’s outside of the sacrifice area, since it’s nowhere near the creek and away from the property line
I would never spread manure in the woods, for that and other reasons.
I have outlined some considerations that apply at various levels of government. You’re going before a particular board, presumably your municipality. I suggest reviewing your municipalities codes, or talking with the person at the municipality about things in advance of the hearing. Explain that you want to be prepared so that everything goes efficiently, and they should be helpful. At the muni level, “in town” I would expect they simply want to avoid pollution, flies, and foul smells. You wouldn’t want a chicken broiler farm to open using an empty block in the middle of town next to the restaurant row, and this process is probably related to that kind of consideration.
I wrote about a lot of other stuff because it’s easiest to make one good plan that has federal (EPA), state, county, and municipal considerations all taken together. While I don’t engage in small talk about manure management with the government, I will actively seek the information they publish on the subject so that I have a pretty good idea of what is requested of me and how well I comply.
One other thing: my township required permits and approval for our fencing. That may be their biggest consideration - that you get the required permits and follow the processes for any improvements.
Unfortunately we’ll have to see what they say at the hearing. The City does not have clear ordinances and in fact, it was only through sheer luck that I learned that horses were not allowed before we bought the place- the ordinances on the City’s website only state that no agricultural animal can be kept on any residential lot less than two acres. It also goes on to define livestock as cattle, sheep, swine and goats- no mention of horses at all. Due to this, we thought we were in the clear and I just so happened to mention it to one of our friends that is also an attorney and deals with zoning, and he got me in touch with the right official, who said that no, horses were not allowed on that property. Due to the ordinances and codes that they have published, this was not clear at all and could have ended very badly.
We were originally going to just back out of the house and wait until something else came along, but a Planning official reached out (who is a horse person and has horses on her property- outside City limits, though) and said due to the acreage and that the property is not surrounded on all sides with neighbors, if we really love the place, this is a pretty simple application process. I can see us getting asked about manure management during the hearing since it may be a concern of neighbors, which is why I asked what others do. This area is pretty heavily horse populated so there may not be as many restrictions as there are in some other cities; however, if it is going to be too much of a hassle or too expensive, we have the option of backing out of the contract and getting our deposit back.
I would be very specific about what happens with the next transfer of ownership. You don’t want to end up with an unsellable “horse” property.
Personally, I would run away now.
Already did- it would be rezoned forever and transferrable.
We thought long and hard about just walking away and have decided to stick it out because if we are allowed horses, it would be harder to find anything as perfect as this. The location is close to EVERYTHING and location is really the most important part of the whole equation: good schools, nice family neighborhood (we have a 7 year old and a 1 year old), close to my family, close to the barn so I can continue lessons, shorter commute to my job, shorter commute to my husband’s school…that’s pretty hard to beat. The actual property is absolutely lovely. There’s a large, flat area that will be perfect for riding, and large areas that will be easy to turn into pasture. The woods behind the creek have trails through them and some clear spots. We were able to get a great deal on the property and it won’t be as difficult as others we looked at to turn into horse property. All in all, the pros outweighed the cons. If it doesn’t happen, we’ll move on.
I agree to see it through - if you walk away you will always wonder about this place.
Exactly. So well said. I originally picked a barn site that was much closer to my home, which would’ve made my life easier – and it would have been approved by local building & health. But, after reading the state wetlands and federal Rivers Act I decided to go with a site 500’ further away because it better matches the spirit of these rules for avoiding waste run off. This was much appreciated by the conservation officer, who now believes me when I say that I am actually composting manure and actually using it all on site.
I know this is off topic, but you have a lot of trees on that property and grass does not grow well under trees. Are you going to have enough grazing for your horses? Are you planning/allowed to cut down trees?
Be sure about the property line/railroad track ROW. What you said does not sound correct. Here the railroad owns 20’ either side of the track so maintenance/inspection vehicles can do their thing. By law the tracks must be inspected! I would find out how often that happens on your tracks, and if any projects are planned. In many places, out of use railroad tracks are being pulled up and walking/biking trails are put in. Called Rails to Trails, it’s happening all over the country. They have had several muggings and property break-ins on the R to T near here. Bad folk use it to get around where police can’t see.
Sorry this has turned into such a downer post, just trying to help you see around the corners.
Yes, there’s enough grass. I’m sure we’ll have to throw hay in the fall and winter, especially since my horse is out 24/7, but there’s a lot of acreage that isn’t trees. Someday we may clear out part of the woods if we want to expand pastures, but they have trails through them so I would like to keep as-is for now.
On the county website, they show the property line as going to the tracks. Maybe it’s 20’ away, it doesn’t really matter to me as we will be fencing off the perimeter well before the tracks.
This has sort of turned into a downer post- though I know no one means to and everyone is trying to be helpful. I really only wanted to know what others were doing with manure on small acreage with a few horses because I had no idea where to begin. I specifically didn’t ask any zoning/property questions because each area is so different- what one may have had to go through, I may not. In the end, if this place can be rezoned- great. If not, life goes on and we’ll continue to look elsewhere.
15 horses, 10 acres permanent (extra 5-10 rented in summer for additional pastures). My horses are set up in sacrifice lots with access to food/shelter 24/7. Small areas and most sheds are cleaned almost daily, one shed is not really possible to get to easily and is cleaned 4-6x yr tractor/manual. Collected manure is composted on the farm, and used to fertilize my and rented fields. The productivity and health of all treated fields improved immensely over the years. I don’t really feed hay in the summers and I do not have easy keepers. I never have any compost left over - between family, friends and neighbors wanting it, we have run out of “stuff” most years.
It is really not as complex as people make it out to be. If you can’t get to turning it over, just be prepared to let it sit longer. Keep in mind that it takes about 12" manure/compost to make 1" soil. So even a big pile goes way down over time.
Over the last couple of years we have used dirt/manure/compost mix from the sacrifice lots to make small berms to direct water away from the hay bales storage area. Worked great. Yet another use for the “stuff”.
Farming is a lot of fun if you don’t mind using your head, being creative, and enjoy getting your hands dirty 
Cherry Hill’s book Horsekeeping on a Small Acreage is a great place start for all aspects of farm planning. You’re right that zoning is a local issue, but, wetlands protections are federal (as well as state and sometimes local) and enforcement is only increasing. That definitely sounds like a bummer at first, but, it’s really a great thing to know pre-purchase and pre-farm planning, so you can avoid expensive disasters. After all, you have horses, and they are in charge of that department! You’ll never regret checking out the riparian situation beforehand.
Don’t be discouraged!!! COTH folks just like to trouble shoot. I second Cherry Hill’s book. Are there any organizations making community gardens in your area? They are usually delighted with donations of manure. Any wholesale plant growers? They may be able to use some of the manure.
I spread mine in the summer but we have too much snow in the winter to make that feasible. In the spring my landscape guy comes with his dump truck and hauls it all away for free, and is tickled to get it. I also give away a good bit to all our hipster friends who are now into gardening in their suburban backyards.
I don’t spend much time turning mine over, I just set some aside in early fall where it gets snowed on and sunned on and whatnot for a good long time, so that it is nice and ready for everyone in late April/May when they start thinking about gardening around here. The landscape guy is on his own, he can age the rest to his heart’s content at his place!
[QUOTE=AmarachAcres;8091772]
Another proponent of the 3 bin system. 5 horses on 6 acres.
Our neighbors love us, they get the extra compost we do not use![/QUOTE]
I have piles, but agree that your neighbors will thank you for the manure if you give it to them. The key to this strategy, if possible, is to make it easy - place your piles/bins somewhere accessible by truck/tractor/car. Save feed bags (especially the plastic kind) and offer to neighbors to fill if they want.
We’re going to go ahead and lay out the plans for the 3 bin composting system in case we’re asked that. I didn’t realize that it takes 12" of compost to make 1" soil so that eases my mind greatly. Landscaping is a big thing here so I’m sure we’ll find takers for everything that’s left over. Thanks again, everyone!
I know you only asked about manure (and have gotten help about that) but since you posted a photo of your plan for the property, it begs the question of what your plan is for the trees.
From the photo and your designated area for the arena, it looks like it would involve cutting down a substantial amount of trees?
Is that allowed? Advisable? Neighborly?
(This will probably come up at the hearing so not a bad thing to explore now.)
Property looks lovely and sounds perfect for you, so I hope it all works out.
I would also check on the water and what use is allowed.
[QUOTE=Stormers85;8100799]
I didn’t realize that it takes 12" of compost to make 1" soil so that eases my mind greatly. [/QUOTE]
Uh, I can’t agree with this figure at all. My bins are 4’ deep (tall). By this calculation, my bin full of manure should reduce from a 4’ tall pile to 4"? Maybe if I left it there for years! Our best guess is that the piles maybe go down to about half the original size once fully composted, and even that might be optimistic. I would be wary of presenting that kind of overly optimistic figure.
I compost most of my manure and use it in the garden and around landscaping in the yard.
The rest I spread with a nifty little spreader that you can pull with a lawn tractor or small atv: http://www.newerspreader.com/models.htm
I have the larger one. Best investment I ever made.
We have 2 horses on 4.5 acres plus a .5 acre dry lot. Very dry climate. I started with a 3 bin system per O2 compost. Horses are turned out full time Sept-March, and strictly managed the rest of the year to preserve grass.
The small 4x4 per bin option we chose made it difficult for the guy we hired to empty the bins with a bobcat. Each bin took about a month to fill, and I also used a large trash can for the mucky hay, since it’s hard to get out of the bins by hand. Now the bins are combined to one large box 12x4 for straight manure, and still have weekly pickup of a trash can for bad hay. This has decreased the number of times we pay for them to be cleane out down to 2x.
Considerations: if you don’t build a ramp, you have to lift each forkful or a muck tub up into the bins. It’s wear and tear on your body. The rate of composting depends on your climate, and managing the aeration tubes. Gophers like to live int the bottom tubes
In our climate, the flies aren’t too bad and the bins don’t smell strongly. The aesthetics aren’t bad either. This is our key reason for using this system. Our dry lot (and the bin) is 30’ from our house and maybe 60’ from our neighbors. An open manure pile isn’t a good option.
FWIW, in our county they require a manure management plan if you have a certain number of horses (we have 6) …which means that there is also a service for farm owners where we can take our manure to the dump for processing. It is free. I load up my dump trailer every day, and take it once per week or so to the dump. It is a great opportunity and keeps down the flies.
