Anyone know what is going on? About 20% of the training and prelim divisions have rider falls or horse falls. Yikes! I hope no one is seriously hurt.
From what I’ve heard - the ground is very hard and rather slippery plus the jumps are pretty substantial (at least for training and prelim). I don’t know if there were serious injuries, but I sure hope not! Our working student came back to the barn referring to it as the Marlborough Massacre… 
Are results online?
The prelim water - a skinny cabin to a drop in got a lot of folks today - both stops and RFs. The training water - a ramp-y oxer-y thing made of logs with gaps between them and set back from the edge of the water got a lot of folks as well (I don’t know if horses seeing the water through gaps in the jump was causing some issues maybe) and the training ditch got a fair number of folks as well (that seems to have happened in previous years too). There was also a house to a drop for training that caused some issues towards the end of the course.
There were a few horses that went walkabout for quite a while after parting company with their riders (3 that took quite a while to catch…2 of which ended up way over on the other side of the property). I don’t think there were any serious injuries…a lot of the falls were stops where the rider just popped off. I thought the courses were pretty substantial…perhaps more so than they have been in the last few years.
I took my young horse out for his first novice expecting that there would be lots of fences shared with BN as in past years, but that was not the case (very proud of my baby for getting around his first novice with just a green moment at the drop!).The staff and volunteers were doing a good job keeping things going despite the issues.
results are online.
I also noticed that several people withdrew prior to xc. I have found the jumps there to not be that substantial but to be a bit tricky at times. Dark to light, odd turns etc. I decided to not go back a few years ago after I felt like some of the xc questions were unfair. I hope no one was hurt.
Marlborough Massacre. yuck.
GotSpots, results are on www.evententries.com.
Looking at the final scores…no prelim riders finished on their dressage score…and only one training rider (out of 3 divisions) finished on theirs…
I was there (just went N myself), and AFAIK nobody was seriously hurt (1 rider was driven off the course but not by ambulance). Agree with tarheel about the major culprits–water, ditch. I think it’s common for there to be a lot of time there–it is twisty/turny and about 1/3 of the track is on “gravel road” in the woods–even without today’s extra hard ground.
The loose horses did seem to be loose forever which was scary–they spent a long time looking for them and the updates were kind of ominous though all were eventually caught.
FWIW until a couple years ago I always found Marlborough a bit tricky (and there were a lot of years with scores like this), then it sort of rebranded itself as a move-up course, then this year it seemed quite a bit stiffer at T/P which might have thrown people.
Tarheel–I was surprised that drop was shared too–the banks in that field are not friendly at any level (hard to see/read) and I thought that was our hardest fence at N.
[QUOTE=Beam Me Up;8322993]
FWIW until a couple years ago I always found Marlborough a bit tricky (and there were a lot of years with scores like this), then it sort of rebranded itself as a move-up course, then this year it seemed quite a bit stiffer at T/P which might have thrown people.
Tarheel–I was surprised that drop was shared too–the banks in that field are not friendly at any level (hard to see/read) and I thought that was our hardest fence at N.[/QUOTE]
I think you are on to something here! A lot of people use this as a move up and it wasn’t really a move up course this year.
I was in the Novice and thought the course rode great, with the exception of the gallop down a gravel road, turn and immediately jump 4ab, but hey we jumped it fine!
The horses were all very confused upon losing their riders. It seemed virtually none of them went back to the trailers instead opting to gallop the power lines or take a tour of the historic mansion in the other freakin direction! At one point BOC announced that no other falls would be allowed…I bet he had a heck of a control job today!!!
I think that this is a prime example of when we should look at the course designer. Tough courses do not have to have so many rider falls. Heck, this event has more falls than most if not all of the huge events that run several days.
Scrutinizing safety starts at this level. I certainly do not think anyone should blame organizers or designers. But I do think that this is the sort of place where we can learn a lot about how to improve safety and prevent falls.
The Course Designer was Roger Haller. I am not familiar with him or his record.
Rider falls were fence-related. What about the horse falls? What were the features of the fences that caused the falls? Someone mentioned a fence near or in the water that may have been misread by horses, someone else above mentioned ditches that were not visible until the last minute? I recall a training ditch or trakhener there years ago that was difficult for horses to read, but I do not recall specifics.
Hard footing, yes, that is an issue at many of the smaller and some of the larger events here this time of year. It is the reason I rarely competed above training unless at a venue with established turf (like Morven) this time of year. But footing does not cause falls.
The bulk of the RF and MRs were above novice.
I ran novice last year after not going for several years due to the concerns mentioned above. One year some time ago I got a ribbon at Training with 2 Xc stops and time because hardly anyone finished in my division. That was the year they had a ditch and wall as fence 3 on the T course.
I found the novice course last year to be friendly and fun and a vast improvement.
I think it is the same designer? Perhaps they decided to up the difficulty this year.
We really do need a better rating system
Ehh, I don’t think it was the course, at least at Training. My horse stopped at a smallish “corner”, and I fell off mostly out of surprise. In his case at least I pretty sure something else is going on and I will be calling the vet this week. I actually thought Training was on the smallish side as a whole and was having a great trip up until then-- but the ground was very hard, admittedly. Almost all the Prelim issues were at the water. I jumped it (same question ) a couple of years ago as an inexperienced rider on an inexperienced horse and it rode fine, so I wonder if there was something funny about the light/ reflection.
[QUOTE=Winding Down;8323045]
I think that this is a prime example of when we should look at the course designer. Tough courses do not have to have so many rider falls. Heck, this event has more falls than most if not all of the huge events that run several days.
Scrutinizing safety starts at this level. I certainly do not think anyone should blame organizers or designers. But I do think that this is the sort of place where we can learn a lot about how to improve safety and prevent falls.
The Course Designer was Roger Haller. I am not familiar with him or his record.
Rider falls were fence-related. What about the horse falls? What were the features of the fences that caused the falls? Someone mentioned a fence near or in the water that may have been misread by horses, someone else above mentioned ditches that were not visible until the last minute? I recall a training ditch or trakhener there years ago that was difficult for horses to read, but I do not recall specifics.
Hard footing, yes, that is an issue at many of the smaller and some of the larger events here this time of year. It is the reason I rarely competed above training unless at a venue with established turf (like Morven) this time of year. But footing does not cause falls.
The bulk of the RF and MRs were above novice.[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure Haller did the Atlanta Olympics course.
Interesting to think that the course designer needs to think about preventing stops at the lower levels so people don’t fall off.
From what I was told, the horse had to make a turn and it’s feet went out from under it. I have no idea if they were going too fast or if they had studs in, only that it was on a turn.
http://useventing.com/news/2012-usea-hall-fame-induction-ceremony-roger-haller
I wasn’t there yesterday but have ridden the T there many times. I’ve never had any problems with the courses - actually, I’ve always really liked them and felt they were good, fair, confidence-building courses for both horse and rider. Not necessarily move-up courses though. At least I probably wouldn’t move horses up to T or P there. One of my favorites actually. RH has been around for a long, long time and knows how to design xc courses, lol. If anything, he’d probably be accused of being more “old-school” in his designs.
[QUOTE=CSU92;8323150]
I’m pretty sure Haller did the Atlanta Olympics course.
Interesting to think that the course designer needs to think about preventing stops at the lower levels so people don’t fall off.[/QUOTE]
Who says they have to design courses to prevent stops? Falls, yes. When over 20% of the xc runs end in horse or rider falls, then there are potential safety concerns. Ultimately, that involves the course designer. Or am I mistaken.
I have no dog in this fight. I do not know Haller (although soon after my post I realized that he has designed some big time courses in the past), but I am concerned about that many falls in one day. Something is going on somewhere. There were quite a few who withdrew prior to xc as well.
Hi Everyone, we’re taking a hard look at the results from this year to see how we can improve in the future. If you were at the event please please please fill out a USEA evaluation form! http://useventing.com/competitions/event-evaluation-form We read each and every one and try to take all suggestions into account when planning for the next year! I’ll be checking back in on this thread and passing on information to the rest of the board, as well as Roger.
Thank you so much to everyone who competed, volunteered, or spectated. We value ALL input and we strive to put on an amazing event every year!
Best,
Diane (MHT Stadium Chair)
[QUOTE=Duckz;8323728]
Hi Everyone, we’re taking a hard look at the results from this year to see how we can improve in the future. If you were at the event please please please fill out a USEA evaluation form! http://useventing.com/competitions/event-evaluation-form We read each and every one and try to take all suggestions into account when planning for the next year! I’ll be checking back in on this thread and passing on information to the rest of the board, as well as Roger.
Thank you so much to everyone who competed, volunteered, or spectated. We value ALL input and we strive to put on an amazing event every year!
Best,
Diane (MHT Stadium Chair)[/QUOTE]
^^^ This! Is good Management! Yea Diane! You rock!
I already filled out my evaluation form but forgot to note one issue I had. Is there a way you guys can keep motorized vehicles out of the warm-up areas? There was one particular trainer riding around on her motor-bike that nearly hit me and my horse twice. No exaggeration. She was darting around on that thing and drove right out in front of me in the stadium warm-up. Never looked where she was going just drove directly in front of a moving horse. The stadium steward and I were shocked at her inability to pay attention.
I’ve gone to Marlborough every year for the past 6 or so years (having to skip 2013 and this year due to horsey injury/etc.). Never had an issue with the courses and there were never any notable falls or injuries from what I can remember. I’ve never considered their courses “trappy” and they work insanely hard to make the best out of a venue that also functions as a state park. Time has never been easy to make there but in past years they’ve adjusted it down to ensure riders don’t go balls-to-the-wall trying to make it.
They did have significantly more entries this year (which thrills me, as I love Marlborough and want it to keep going!) due to Plantation running only the upper levels this year… so naturally with more riders there will be more stops/falls/etc.
Edited to add: I only see three "W"s on the Saturday board, and one of them I know is because one rider had fallen off on her other horse and split open her lip (thus requiring a trip to the hospital for stitches!). The other two may have just decided they didn’t want to run on the hard ground, or their horse pulled a shoe, or whatever. I wouldn’t consider those a reaction to the problems that were occurring on course.
Actual statistics
[QUOTE=Winding Down;8322501]
Anyone know what is going on? About 20% of the training and prelim divisions have rider falls or horse falls. Yikes! I hope no one is seriously hurt.[/QUOTE]
As the Organizer of Marlborough, I’d like to address a couple of specific concerns. First, you had to be there to really understand the question asked at the level and the look and feel of how the course rode. Monday morning quarterbacking is rarely useful, but it happens here a lot. That said I’d like to present some actual statistics from our event and dispel the “massacre” moniker…
Of the 38 Prelim starters, approximately 69% had trouble getting around stadium without rails. 26 riders had one or more rails. Kathy White (R, VA) is our stadium course designer and as one of the top course designers in the area I doubt too many people would blame course design for all of the rails, but someone will, not doubt. Of those starters, there were 3 WD after dressage and one of those was because the rider had a fall on XC on her first horse and was not able to continue. She’s fine and was a really good sport and our Rider Representative. Her young horse misjudged the bank out of the water and stumbled, dropping her out of the saddle. Up to that point their ride looked brilliant and this can happen to anyone.
P: 38 Starters, 11% RF (4 Riders), 8% E (3 Riders), 2X TE, 3X WD, 1 X MR. SJ 69% (26 Riders) had rails
Of the remaining 3 RF, most were because the riders popped out of the tack when their horses stopped. I’m not going to guess why so many riders had trouble going without jump penalties because there are too many variables and I’m not in their head. It was a similar scenario with Training: 25 Starters, 12% RF (4 Riders), 12% E (4 Riders), 1X R. SJ: 60% (21 Riders) had rails.
Roger Haller designs our courses, John Williams was TD and Amanda Miller-Atkins was the President of the Ground Jury. All of our officials and Rider Representative agreed the courses were appropriate for the level. None were as difficult as you’d find at Fair Hill or Virginia which is why some folks come here to move up, but it’s still Prelim and Training and the rules do not change. Quite often you will find good, confidence-building questions, but at a lower height or smaller spread. There are some maximum height and spreads, but again, not as many as other events.
We have spent a lot of time and money continually updating our courses. As a non-profit horse trial, 100% of our funds go to the running and improvement of the HT. Five years ago Prelim shared too many fences with training and it was a common and valid complaint. Now there is no sharing. The last fence on P was shared with T this year, but it was a brush fence so the height could be adjusted between divisions.
I can’t speak to what happened with individual riders, but I can say our board and officials care deeply about rider safety (non-frangible fences are gone and all courses upgraded every year) and making sure we give folks the best possible experience. Folks who are eliminated in Dressage or Stadium for most any reason other than safety are allowed to complete their XC run if they choose to do so. The biggest problem for horses/riders on Prelim was misreading the question at 9A/B into the water, but that fence still was not maximum height and the bank in is actually rather small compared to other events.
Either way, we want to help and I encourage folks to complete the Area 2 Evaluation that Diane posted earlier. It goes directly to the Area 2 Chair and is then passed to us. It covers a variety of elements (not just jumping) and is a very useful tool for us to know where we can do better.
It was a really fun year and I really liked the mix of officials we had this year. Next year is our 30th anniversary so be prepared for a really great celebration!
Donna B
Organizer, the Marlborough Horse trials
[URL=“http://www.marlboroughhorsetrials.org”]www.marlboroughhorsetrials.org
