mashing or wetting food during severe weather changes

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=KIloBright;7873222]
…Horses are designed to eat medium quality forage almost all the time, thus never having stomach on empty.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with most of your post, how is “medium quality forage” defined? Without a hay analysis (and I don’t see that suggested anywhere) “quality” in terms of protein%, DE, ADF (lignin & cellulose), RFV, NSC, etc. is just guesswork.

Personally, I don’t believe any but the hardest keepers should be fed anything free choice, including hay. Free choice minerals? Studies have shown the only mineral a horse actively seeks is sodium, i.e., plain old salt. Most mineral supplements, especially those reddish mineral block things, are mostly salt with a lot of iron (red iron oxide which gives them their color).

Based on the typical hay analyses I’ve taken over the years, most horses do not need supplemental iron as the average hay is loaded with it (200-350ppm). This translates to 275ppm (average) = 275 mg/kg = 2,500mg iron in just 20# of hay, hardly trace amounts! So if your mineral supplement contains mostly salt, the horse may over eat other minerals in the supplement looking for salt. And that’s assuming what’s in your mineral supplement complements what’s missing from the hay.

Horses that aren’t being fed the recommended minimum quantities of a fortified feed or a RB, should be supplemented with a decent vit/mineral product, such as Accel. Even “high quality” hays contain little to no vitamins despite what some people on this forum claim. The drying/curing process degrades them. Added Vit A and E are important if the horse is on a hay only diet and has no regular access to fresh pasture. Horses make their own B vits, as well as C, so these are not a concern unless the horse is compromised in some way.

[JB]

I don’t have “the hardest keepers” by any means, and they all get free choice hay in Winter. They can do that because the hay isn’t the “best” quality. If it were, my WB would likely have to be rationed. Even my hardEST keeper, my TB mare, only gets a little beet pulp, 1/2c alfalfa pellets (for taste), and a v/m supplement in Summer while on free choice grass, and the extras would double-ish in Winter. If she were in real work, she’d need free choice hay/grass and more concentrates, and she’s not a “hardest keeper”

Last year’s hay was lower quality than normal, and for 2 of mine I actually had to move to a concentrate, at about 5lb, to keep weight on, despite free choice hay

[Iride]

Ok, not sure if I will know the size from the outside of the bags but if you know that Purina has them that way I’ll look for that. Though I tend to be wary of any Purina products…quality control not the best.

[JB]

I’m the same - wary. But, I got Purina alf pellets for quite a few years from a local feed supply store, and never had a problem, so…

You should be able to tell the size of the pellets in the bag if you feel around a bit. The big ones are really big, like bordering on cigar-like in diameter. As well, there’s usually a broken bag or 2, so you could ask if there are any so you can take a look at the size.

[Iride]

Once horses are of senior age they no longer manufacture their own vitamin C

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=Iride;7876089]
Once horses are of senior age they no longer manufacture their own vitamin C[/QUOTE]
References?

[Iride]

Here’s one of thousands. It’s not news.

http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/Library/OlderHorsesNeedSupplementalVitaminC.htm

[JB]

I think the issue isn’t that the older horse can’t make his own Vit C, it’s more that he may not be able to keep up with his body’s demands
http://www.esc.rutgers.edu/publications/general/fs1065.htm
“when a horse is stressed (e.g. geriatric, intensely exercising, long hauls), production of vitamin C can’t keep up with its demand.”

http://www.ker.com/library/advances/238.pdf
“Vitamin C supplementation (20 g perday) increased antibody response to vaccines in aged horses, especially those
with pituitary dysfunction or Cushing’s syndrome (Ralston, 1999)”

[Huntertwo]

[QUOTE=Iride;7872192]
Would wetting grain down well be as good as doing a bran mash for preventing reactions to sudden or severe weather and temperature change?

Also, which is best, the night before the weather or the night of?

And yes I know there are two schools of thought on whether bran is even a good idea…which is one reason I’m asking… :)[/QUOTE]

I never do a Bran Mash. To me, it is the same as switching feed abruptly, which is obviously not good.

Adding water to feed? It can’t hurt.

[bdj]

OP, the Standlee brand alfalfa pellets are small, and will break down quite nicely. I used to give my elderly, dentally challenged guy a bedtime snack of them - 2# pellets in an 8 qt bucket, topped off with enough hot (from the tap) water to not quite fill the bucket will break down and fluff up enough to fill the bucket in 20 minutes or so. Night check was at 10pm, so at 9:30 I’d start his bucket in the kitchen sink, put a dishtowel over the top of it and it would be perfect by 10pm. It wasn’t quite soupy - more wet/fluffy, if that makes any sense? I was VERY particular about it, as he did have a history of choke. He was not too picky about how wet it was, so I always erred on the side of too wet, rather than too dry.

[Iride]

bdj, great to know!

I feel the Standlee alfalfa products are superior. And it’s all she’ll eat. Glad to hear their pellets are the small type so I don’t have to go to a different brand

[rcloisonne]

[QUOTE=Iride;7876601]
Here’s one of thousands. It’s not news.

http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/Library/OlderHorsesNeedSupplementalVitaminC.htm[/QUOTE]
Nice, but not a scientific paper. Nor does it provide any supporting documentation for the claims made. For example, how did she determine the amount of Vit C to give based on age & weight? No mention of any blood work done to see if older horses produced less Vit C than the younger guys. In other words, I’d have to see something a little more convincing to accept any of it as fact.

The ability of Vit C to corral free radicals and prevent oxidative damage, bandied about for years, has been disproven over and over in humans (numerous double blind studies). There used to be 1,000s of articles on the web and in “Health” magazines advising people to ingest large quantities of Vit C to cure the common cold but that too has been disproven may times.

In any event, you aren’t going to find Vit C in hay either.

[Iride]

Horses manufacture their own vitamin C… except for when they reach their senior years, when auto-production of vit.C slows down (and at a time when many especially need it). I’ll look for refs when I have time when I’m back home