[QUOTE=Ghazzu;3453736]
Personally, I’m offended by all the lazy ass folks who fly a flag but can’t be bothered to raise it at dawn and lower it at sunset.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind if you have a light shining on your flag at night then it is “legal/proper/valid/untreasonous/withoutfearofbeinghorsewhipped” to do so without having to take it down. Or at least that was what I learned long ago in the Boy Scouts.
Very classy, tasteful post. Thank you.
I’ve never met anyone who wasn’t taught to put their hand over their heart during the Anthem. So I was frankly a little surprised by some of the responses.
But the vitriol being spewed by some of the posters…wow.
MGP, a serious question for you.
Do you think that McLain is patriotic and proud of his country? If so, why does the minor symbolism matter so much?
As someone else said, I would far, far rather see someone genuinely moved by the ceremony without his hand on his heart than someone standing there with his hand on his heart and looking like he would rather be doing something else.
(I was raised in California and am part of the group that was taught to stand quietly with hands at side. I didn’t run into a big group of folks who did the hand on heart thing for the Anthem until I moved to Texas. And even here, people do it both ways.)
I gotta say, I won’t hold it against anyone if they don’t put their hand over their heart but I actually started to when the impression of the US went into the tank years back.
The more other countries hate on us, the more I feel compelled to cling to my love of our country and standing heart in hand is the only way I know how to show it publicly. I actually enjoy doing it and enjoy singing the anthem. But it does not offend me at all if others choose not to.
[QUOTE=Coreene;3453902]
Aaron just wrote it. It was Prez Andy who delivered it with such eloquence. And before his very bad facelift.[/QUOTE]
Haha very true…what you don’t like his very feminine attributes post facelift? I do love that movie, so relevant to today’s politics.
Way off topic, but my favorite Sorkin line was from West Wing where Ainsley talks about feminism, that gives me goosebumps.
I’m not sure why that was so surprising, really. Taken together, your posts here have basically implied you think most of us are disrespectful to our country. So it’s sort of like going to the H/J board and implying people are bad riders if a trainer gets on their horse, or going to eventing to complain about the cruelty of log jumps. It’s just not likely to end well.
It’s just sort of a big assumption to make about people, when they’re explaining what they think about certain gestures/symbols.
I am of the generation who put their right hand over their heart and said the “Pledge of Alligence” every morning in grammar school.
For the generations born into a United States public school system which no longer allows children to Pledge Alligance to our flag and threatens to remove …Under God…from that Pledge, I say it’s our fault McLain didn’t “properly” display his patriotism.
Our generation (the children of the Greatest Generation) allowed the public school systems/government to ban saying the Pledge. Because of our complacency every generation since the outlaw of the “Pledge” has not been given the opportunity to learn how to be patriotic. They’ve not been taught to be silent during the playing/singing of our National Anthem. (I recently witnessed, at the opening of a Grand Prix a group of Hispanics chatting and beer drinking during the playing of our Anthem. I so wanted to say something.)
I look at McL’s non action on the podium and the debate it has sparked as a symptom of a much greater issue.
[QUOTE=ridgeback;3453419]
You put your hand over your heart for the pledge of allegiance not the national anthem [/QUOTE]
Correct. You stand and remove cover (hats) for the Anthem. It is not customary to put your hand over your heart for the national anthem.
[QUOTE=Ruby G. Weber;3453951]
(I recently witnessed, at the opening of a Grand Prix a group of Hispanics chatting and beer drinking during the playing of our Anthem. I so wanted to say something.).[/QUOTE]
Oh, I wish you had! White people never do that! These Hispanics really need to learn what’s right!
Oh, I know that.
Still, I think in many cases, it’s a cop out.
People want the image of More Patriot Than Thou, but it’s damned inconvenient to have to actually treat the flag with the respect they claim loudly that it deserves.
(I was born on a NAS, which fer sure raised and lowered the flag daily, and my Gramps was a WWI veteran in the YD, and whenever I was at his house, we raised and lowered the flag every day–and made sure to fold it correctly, as well…)
[QUOTE=Ruby G. Weber;3453951]
I am of the generation who put their right hand over their heart and said the “Pledge of Alligence” every morning in grammar school.
For the generations born into a United States public school system which no longer allows children to Pledge Alligance to our flag and threatens to remove …Under God…from that Pledge[/QUOTE]
Wait a sec, “Under God” was injected into the Pledge in the 1950’s, it shouldn’t be there to begin with. Take that out and I bet very few would take issue with it in the public schools again, its that whole separation of church and state thing that caused the pledge to be taking out of public school rooms.
Along the lines of taking down flags at night… My husband and I took a friend out to dinner Saturday night. He’s from Lebanon and moved here only a few years ago. When we drove to the entrance of our property, I stopped so that my husband could take down the flag. Our friend has lived all over the world and never encountered the practice before and was touched by it, along with our having flown one in the first place. He praised us for being patriotic.
But you know what MGP, while I also put my hand over my heart, I can’t say that my putting up / taking down a flag or standing “properly” during the anthem makes me one bit more patriotic than McLain. Actually, given his efforts this morning, I think he’s beating me. 
Honestly, I have no idea if he’s patriotic and proud of his country. I’ve never met him, and if I do, I have a feeling the conversation would be about horses, not flags.
I guess I just don’t see it as minor. But I’m heavily involved in veterans’ affairs, so maybe it’s just a touchier subject for me than most.
[quote=Portia;3453932]As someone else said, I would far, far rather see someone genuinely moved by the ceremony without his hand on his heart than someone standing there with his hand on his heart and looking like he would rather be doing something else.
[/quote]
I guess we can agree to a point…but I hate lessor of two evils examples.
Can’t decide exactly what comment to make re this one, but an airsick bag would be most helpful.
Wow. Talk about wearing your bigotry right there for all to see.
Here’s the original pledge from the 1890s–
‘I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.’
Come to think of it, there were probably other Americans who won gold in other events at this (and other) Olympics that didn’t have hand over their heart during the national anthem.
Are they bad too? Is their performance lesser because of it? Are they unpatriotic?
This is such a NON-ISSUE; people need to get real.
“Under God” wasn’t part of the original.
It was added in 1954 when anti-Communist sentiment was at a fever pitch.
Our generation (the children of the Greatest Generation) allowed the public school systems/government to ban saying the Pledge.
Where has it been banned?
I do know there are many places where it has been ruled that it is not compulsory, but that’s a wee bit different…
IIRC, the SCOTUS ruled against banning the pledge.
Our fine system in action, eh? Isn’t that what it’s all about?
To bring this back to horses, I’ve seen saddlepads made out of the flag.
I find putting the flag under a saddle to absorb sweat to be more disrespectful than patriotic.
Kinda like the car dealerships with their flag festooned “Presidents’ Day Sales Event!!!” That crass commercializing bothers me more than some schlub scratching his nether regions during the playing of a tune that began as an English tavern song.
[QUOTE=Coreene;3453982]
Can’t decide exactly what comment to make re this one, but an airsick bag would be most helpful.
Wow. Talk about wearing your bigotry right there for all to see.[/QUOTE]
I was being sarcastic–white people drink beer and chat during the national anthem all the time. Ever attended a MLB game?
Hmm, I read that post as a sarcastic response to the one that it quoted.
Pssst, Coreene, I think OK was being sarcastic.
At least I hope so.
I guess I just don’t see it as minor. But I’m heavily involved in veterans’ affairs, so maybe it’s just a touchier subject for me than most.
What you are failing to acknowledge is that many, many people here grew up with a different tradition of showing respect for the flag during the anthem - namely, stand quietly at attention, hat removed. For all you know, MW is showing his respect in the tradition in which he (and many of the rest of us) was raised. Getting all judgy and holier than thou on him when, in point of fact, he was doing nothing wrong is pretty nasty.
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