Mclain during medal ceremony

[QUOTE=MyGiantPony;3453977]
I guess I just don’t see it as minor. But I’m heavily involved in veterans’ affairs, so maybe it’s just a touchier subject for me than most.[/QUOTE]

You think you’re the only person who comes from a military background? I come from an Army family - an OLD ARMY family, at that. My grandfather, stepfather, uncle, and father had far better things to worry about - still do (did, in the case of the dearly departed) - than whether or not someone put their hand over their heart during the anthem, which I was not taught growing up, and I’ve never seen anyone in my family practice. Guess my Papa’s Silver Star should’ve been revoked for lack of patriotism. Give me a break. :no:

Mooning the flag during the anthem would be disrespectful.

It takes a lot of energy to find fault with a man who listens to the anthem with tears in his eyes.

Congratulations to the team. It’s an extraordinary achievement. It’s a shame people work so hard tp snipe at others. There are so many more important problems to expend energy on.

Bet he doesn’t wear a flag pin either. So now we KNOW he’s a terrorist.

No. There is a tradition that says hats left on for women is OK, hats for men is not. It is not any more sanctified than the whole hand on heart/hands at side issue. BOTH are subject to individual expression, and it appears your individual expression calls for a certain way and clearly other people have a different interpretation.

I suppose if one were to call on the “Miss Manners” for this issue one would rely on the Code, right?

However that code does explicitly say that hands should be on the heart and hats should be removed. I didn’t notice an exception in there for women, did you?

You can’t embrace only the parts of the rule that suit you (unless you work for FOX). If you start a contentious thread that is fairly disrespectful of a rider based on absolutely nothing but whom you deem to have met your personal standards, I think your standards should be “up to code” or at least having a passing familiarity with a logical and well thought out position. Sadly, yours do not.

By the way, did he at least give Saphire a pat? He never used to give his horses a pat as they finished their round & left the ring. That really disturbed me.

If you watch, a LOT of the Olympic competitors did not give obvious pats to their horses. You don’t know, he may do so once he leaves the ring. Sapphire is certainly a very happy horse and goes the extra mile for McClain, so I’m sure he shows her appreciation. Just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Check out the photos and story about Sapphire and her groom on the NBC site - the horse has a great life and is well loved. Not many international riders at McClain’s level turn their multi-million dollar horses out in a field so they “can be a horse for awhile.”

My initial reaction was that he forgot, was just caught up in the entire moment - at one point, he looked choked up, biting his lip.

I loved that the girls left their helmets on - I would have! Imagine the terrible helmet head, then tons of photos of taken that way, yuck!

My grandfather, stepfather, uncle, and father had far better things to worry about - still do (did, in the case of the dearly departed) - than whether or not someone put their hand over their heart during the anthem, which I was not taught growing up, and I’ve never seen anyone in my family practice.

Have to agree with you here - my family has long military history. My dad told me it was a military salute for the country he served and he never “instructed” us kids to put our hands over our hearts during the anthem.

Y’all are getting way too political.

That’s the part about this whole silly stupid discussion is you KNOW the whole reason Beezie and Laura left their hats on was pure vanity, and I so would have joined them if ever I had a chance of sharing their rarified air!

So we have MGB on and on with the McLain bashing for doing something that half the people out there freely admit was how they were raised to do it, but when it comes to an issue of pure unadulterated vanity, mum’s the word!

And yes, McLain very much did quiet pats to Sapphire when she was done, although I imagine she was looking a bit more to her groom who I noticed ALWAYS had the big treats ready when she left the ring. But I admit, I got themost choked up when Laura left the ring last after the final victory laps - she gave Cedric about 3 big hugs in the exit chute. :wink: Let’s face it, that’s not a “guy thing” :smiley:

Double Standards. They’re What Makes 'Merca GREAT!

Count me as another one who learned hand on the heart for the Pledge of Allegiance and not for the national anthem. In high school sports, we had a required position for the national anthem which put our feet at shoulder width, chin up, facing the flag, hands behind our backs.

When my brother went to the Air Force Academy, he informed me that I was wrong and hand on the heart was appropriate for the national anthem, but I’d heard the opposite until then.

I think it’s safe to assume that (barring an obvious protest) hand on the heart/not on the heart is nothing more than a reflection of how someone has been instructed to show. And people have been taught different ways.

Personally, after 9/11, I put my hand on my heart when I hear our anthem. I never want to forget, it’s one way I remember.

DOn’t care of McLain does, wish he would but there are bigger fish to fry.

So here’s the real question… was the medal ceremony only online or did I miss it on the tube? If it’s going to be on the tube ( along with the final and jump off) when?

I have miserable dial up.

J

[QUOTE=DMK;3454282]

You can’t embrace only the parts of the rule that suit you (unless you work for FOX). [/QUOTE]

DMK, you rock!

I have seen Obama not put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance… if you can believe that.

I personally think Americans should put their hand over their heart for BOTH the Anthem and Pledge.

Michael Phelps had his hand on his heart for all 8 of his Gold medals…

[QUOTE=Tiger Horse;3454175]
MyGiantPony - count me in with you and if that makes me an old fussy woman, so be it. I attend MLB games quite often and it makes me furious when I see people who do not remove their hats (men or women) or place their hands over their hearts during the National Anthem. To me it is hugely disrepectful - to our nation, to the people who gave their lives so that I can live as I do and to those who are still fighting . . .[/QUOTE]

I actually find it kind of disrespectful to the national anthem to play it at MLB games–why do they do that? Seems like sort of frivolous thing–they don’t play it at movie theaters before Star Wars, do they?

Playing it at the Olympics is fine, though. Hand over heart? I think someone can be patriotic without that.

It wasn’t done when I was growing up. Hand over heart was for the Pledge of Allegiance, not the national anthem. (Of course, most of the time I heard the national anthem I was at a football game playing a band instrument so couldn’t very well put my hand over my heart!) I never saw people do that when I was growing up–and I and every American I know are certainly patriotic!

Seems it’s gotten to be an accepted practice now–which could mean trouble for people who DON’T do it.

Church is more accepting–you can cross yourself or not, as you feel.

Overo Kid posted:

I actually find it kind of disrespectful to the national anthem to play it at MLB games–why do they do that? Seems like sort of frivolous thing–they don’t play it at movie theaters before Star Wars, do they?

I think some of the ways they play/sing it are disrespectful. They used to play it before movies on military bases. And on TV when a channel signed off for the night (which they used to do instead of running paid programs during the small hours). Do they still play the national anthem in Britain in cinemas after the movie?

DMK posted:

… the whole reason Beezie and Laura left their hats on was …

… that they’re women who are familiar with rules of etiquette.

[QUOTE=Overo Kid;3454344]
I actually find it kind of disrespectful to the national anthem to play it at MLB games–why do they do that? Seems like sort of frivolous thing–they don’t play it at movie theaters before Star Wars, do they?[/QUOTE]

The national anthem has been played at every horse racing course I’ve been to in the US before the start of the racing cards. The compliance with refraining from talking, giving attention, removing a hat, and above all else a moment of respect has been exceedingly high at race tracks by comparison baseball games.

For the obsessors, I just watched the jump-off and McLain gave Sapphire multiple pats after his jump-off round, so take those particular bullets out of your guns.

But why do it before sporting events? It seems silly.

I just can’t believe that he’s now won a gold medal and still people get his name wrong all the time. It’s McLain, not MacLain or McClain or Mclaine or any other variation. If you’re going to discuss him ad nauseum, at least have the decency to spell his name correctly!

[QUOTE=Anne FS;3454366]
For the obsessors, I just watched the jump-off and McClain gave Sapphire multiple pats after his jump-off round, so take those particular bullets out of your guns.[/QUOTE]

My computer wouldn’t let me watch the feed, and I don’t get Oxygen–but I did watch Sunday on NBC, and I thought that Sapphire looked super relaxed, happy, and in sync with her rider. I can’t imagine he’s cold to her–she looked like just super, a very happy horse. I don’t follow jumping usually–first time I’d seen her, and thought she looked the best of the American horses in some ways. Great mare!

DMK posted:

There is a tradition that says hats left on for women is OK, hats for men is not. It is not any more sanctified than the whole hand on heart/hands at side issue.

It’s got nothing to do with sanctity, rather to do with one’s idea of patriotism. As far as hand on heart goes, I think it’s more important what’s IN the heart than what’s OVER it (hand, handheld hat, etc.) After all, the military don’t salute hand on heart (well, not since ancient Rome).

And as an old fogey myself with LOTS of military members of the family, I think it’s inappropriate for women to remove their hats (or helmets) for the National Anthem. It simply isn’t done. Men: oh, yes, but not women. My father and father-in-law, both WWII veterans would agree.

And hand on heart is certainly not required, but standing still and not talking or shifting about certainly is mandatory.

Please, someone shut down this silly thread.