So have course designers increased their stride measurements then? When I rode hunters many moons ago my 15 hand qh and 15.1 tb made the lines just fine.
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They have been as McGurk describes for as long as I can remember and I am remembering back to the joyous times of rust breeches.
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Question for McGurk: What about the small hunters division? Wouldn’t they usually be under 16 hands?
Are the strides set differently for them?
I’ve never had or known a small hunter, but my impression was they can be pretty valuable in their own right.
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My 15.3 APHA makes the lines just fine. It helps that APHA/AQHA tend to have long backs which means longer stride.
Though, I understand the point some of you are making. A very petite 15h ranch horse may not have the striding to look good in the hunter ring.
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I too had rust breeches! I liked them a lot! They looked great with a dark bay…
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LilRanger,
No, but back in the day, there were mostly TBs and QHs showing, not so many WBs, and a forward pace down the lines was expected. It was the introduction of WB hunters that really changed the game. Also contributing were more shows moving off grass and onto artificial surfaces, which meant shorter courses and more related distances.
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I sold my 15.3 HH, coming 9 YO solid paint who was cruising 2’3" beautifully, could be ridden by my 6 YO cousin w/t, and was started on lead changes, for 9k. He was very halter and ranch bred and somehow came out as a beautiful hunter. He did well in breed shows but was too forward to win consistently, perfect “real” hunter pace though. They are definitely out there and there are a LOT of adult amateur hunters looking for something safe to play on. If you’re looking to sell green hunters for mid five figures you’re looking in the wrong spot, but there is definitely a market for safe, cute, FUN hunters.
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There used to a division for Small Junior Hunters 15.3 and under. It doesn’t exist anymore because there weren’t entries to fill it. There is a division called “Small Hunter” for horses under 16 hands, but it’s a C rated division. I suspect that division doesn’t fill often either; I haven’t seen any shows offering Small Hunter, but someone who attends more shows than I do may know of some. The bottom line is, there isn’t really a resale market for a 15.2 hunter that has to gallop to make the distances. That some people do end up with lovely horses that size is beside the point. If you’re trying to flip horses for a quick resale, you have to have something that’s marketable.
ETA: And no, the striding isn’t different for the small hunters. If everyone in the class has to have the same forward pace to make the distance, you’ve effectively leveled the playing field. What you’d see a show is lots of WBs crawling down the lines in the regular hunters, and the smalls having to use more motor.
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I want to add to what McGurk is saying - To many people in the hunter world the 15.3h horse is too small even if it does have the stride. They are just hard to sell because most people are not willing to look past that missing inch to give it a try. People insist they will look too big on such a small horse, blah blah blah.
When trying to make a profit flipping horses a person has to market what sells, not hope they can find enough buyers to sell what no one thinks they want.
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The small junior hunter division definitely still exists. However the height cut off is now 16 hands.
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It does make me giggle that there is a world 16h is the cut off for small and large. (I know it is true, but still giggle worthy.)
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I agree with Heinz. In our part of the west, you can’t touch anything for $1 - 2K. I’m looking for a safe lower level eventer in the mid to upper 4 figures and there is nothing. I’d have to travel out of state to CA to find what I want in a price I can afford. Case in point, there’s a horse on FB that is not registered, 15.1ish, very green - barely w/t/c and just started over very small fences priced at $12,000. Also, a mustang, nice enough small horse and they’re asking $14,000. Does it have a show record? No. I always think, “well I hope you like him because you’re going to have him for a while.” People have such an inflated sense (in this area) of what their horses are worth.
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My question would be, how often do the Small Junior classes fill? The big A show near to me offers the class at 3’6", but the prize list states
I suspect the majority of the time the Smalls get combined with the larges, and they split the division just by age. May be different in different regions and zones.
Still doesn’t change the fact that a 15.1 or 15.2 hunter has a VERY limited market.
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Yes, like any divisions that can combine or split, it depends on the show. WEF, Upperville, Devon - probably always fills. Several of the bigger Tryon shows this fall easily filled a small junior division. Small junior horses can actually be highly sought after precisely because the lower numbers can make it easier to earn HOTY or qualifying points in their division.
I don’t disagree that 15.1 or 15.2 horses can be a tough sell in the hunter world unless they have proven to have the step. I was just correcting the statement regarding the existence of the small junior division.
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Yes I want to know where y’all are finding these papered ranch horses that are big enough/have the step/ammy friendly and are 1-2k. Maybe it’s Montana but if you want something papered, big, and safe easily 5-8k if not more.
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I believe OP had an in on horses like this through family.
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Yes, I do. Also, they are not English broke, but western trained, and papers are probably a 50/50 chance.
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Would papers necessarily be important? To me, a horse not having papers would not be a big deal if it checked all the other boxes. But that could just be ignorance on my part.
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My bad! And good catch on your part. I made the mistake of assuming what was happening local to me is what’s happening everywhere, which is of course not the case.
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Not a hunter shower, so this has been educational.
From a business perspective, all of the above makes the point that ultimately the buyer decides the price. Buyers have a choice to buy something else. Sellers are sometimes so boresighted on what they offer that they forget this.
This was my earlier point that in this business, pricing to the buyer market is critical, because if this product doesn’t sell, you can’t box it up and stuff it out of sight in your attic or garage. Many attics and garages are filled with the unmet expectations of small businesses.
There will be a learning curve. No escaping it. You must be well-funded enough to survive it. You must be able to make hard decisions and move on.
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