Medina Spirit fails drug test

[skydy]

@Equkelly

@Event_Horse

I just have to say - I really appreciate this forum. The posts I’ve seen are by true horse people who think of the horse’s well-being first, are willing to read up / research topics, and use common sense.

Lol… you haven’t been here long enough then.

I believe the comparison by @Event_Horse was between the knowledge of COTH posters and random facebook pages.

From the examples I’ve seen, I think people are more likely to find actual experience and good advice from educated horse people here, rather than from random people on the internet. Granted, the random internet horse “experts” set a low bar.
However, there are people that have been members here for a very long time. Veterinarians, judges, breeders, race horse trainers etc… It’s easy not to know that the persons with whom you are arguing are experts in their field if you haven’t been around COTH for awhile and been paying attention.

No one here is perfect, however we tend to police each other well as to facts, and @Event_Horse seems to be happy to be reading the thoughts of experienced, educated horse people. Nothing wrong with that.

[2tempe]

IMO as long time racing fan but not owner or trainer, Medina Spirit doesnt look like a Belmont distance horse especially with short turn around. So given that and the controversy, not surprised. BUT in the back of my mind I wonder if he had some knowledge this was coming and wanted to be ahead of that story.

[ASB_Stars]

@LaurieB

Since you asked…the decision was announced 2 days ago.

Do you think that Baffert had any inkling that he was going to get set down prior to making the announcement?

[LaurieB]

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he did.

[ASB_Stars]

@LaurieB

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he did.

I tend to think that they gave him a heads up, so that he could save face, and not make a huge stink.

[Event_Horse]

@Equkelly

Lol… you haven’t been here long enough then.

Been reading these boards for a looooong time - just not posting. I know there can be very heated debates. However, COTH posters generally research and back up their claims and post links to resources that we call all learn from. Many decades of horse experience and I still love learning and am thankful for those that share their knowledge.

But COTHers would not post, in essence, “Well, Baffert said the results were due to a topical ointment so that MUST be true because he is SOOOOOO successful.” COTHers have a healthy dose of skepticism because many have first-hand experiences witnessing (but not condoning!) sketchy practices - rollkur, poling jumpers, electric devices in spurs, etc., etc.

I’ll use a racing analogy - there are a lot of people right now who, if they were racehorses, are preferring to wear blinkers, shadow rolls, and earplugs. (When perhaps they need tongue ties? ) I think most COTHers don’t use that equipment.

[frugalannie]

Kick on Event_Horse, kick on.

Now can someone explain to me why the split sample test is taking so long?

[Maythehorsebewithme]

Paulick report tweeted on this,

Ray Paulick (raypaulick)

and cited an article from last year:

Experts Say Arkansas Derby Split Sample Still On Schedule–The Only Difference...

I still don’t get it. Couldn’t there be a “fast tracking”?

[snaffle1987]

it’s not really stupidity. It’s a matter of Bob’s stable has gotten too big for his britches and there is honestly no way he could know every individual horse under his umbrella. It is also evident that even the top horses within his stable are entrusted to the care of assistants and beyond the training; it appears Bob hasn’t a clue what may be going on back in his barn (or he does know and he is playing dumb).
It is true that BB has assistants who do the majority of the everyday work and training of the horses and Bob’s focus is mainly on the select few good standouts in his stable. The assistants are, in many cases, the one’s doing the work while Bob gets the glory. Flip side of the coin: if those assistants and barn staff do not follow rules and regulations; Bob is the one in the limelight taking the hit. I am not sure how many horses are in Bob’s stable but I am sure it is well over 100.

Bob relies on the assistants to do the everyday work and record keeping for his stable; like a barn manager at a show barn. But when you have a stable of that size and so many hands in the cookie jar greasing the wheel everyday; it’s obvious he has no day to day knowledge of what is going on with individual horses within his stable

Is it possible that someone took a steroid cream off the shelf to treat the skin condition unknowingly? Yes it is. I am sure it happens more often than one would think in stables this size. After taking this into consideration do I still believe that Otomax is the source of the positive test? Absolutely not. My reasoning is the drug history within Bob’s stable and the fact that one of his horses tested for the same drug just last year on a big race day

Let’s be honest here: Bob Baffert was scraping the bottom of his stable barrel when he brought Medina Spirit to the derby. The horse had a good record but never faced much competition. He thought the horse would be in the top 5 but had no chance at winning. He was very open about this and was adamant in his interviews with the press. He brought Medina Spirit there for the ownership and a good time. Perhaps the lack of confidence in winning or hitting the board led things to be extra lapse. He had no reason to believe the horse would ever be tested. But this is horse racing and Bob should know better. Anything can happen on Derby day

[LaurieB]

@Maythehorsebewithme

I still don’t get it. Couldn’t there be a “fast tracking”?

The original sample is tested by the local racing authority. The split sample is tested by the lab chosen by the trainer whose horse tested positive. So in this case Bob Baffert is the one controlling the timeline.

And what a surprise, he’s not in any hurry to have the outcome be revealed.

[Maythehorsebewithme]

That explains the delay, but of course will not change the ultimate outcome. You would think he would want to just get it over with–his reputation is not getting better with time.

[Laurierace]

The split sample hasn’t even been sent out for testing yet so it definitely will take a while. The lab who did the original test is not local, it is in Colorado but the procedures for testing the original sample is much simpler than the extensive testing the split undergoes. It will be months.

[halo]

It is stupidity. Theres many trainers out there with much larger stables than Baffert has, and you dont hear of anyone else with positive after positive after positive. Having a large string is no excuse for not knowing whats going on with each and every horse. Its his JOB. If the people he delegates arent doing their job, they need to be fired.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@snaffle1987

it’s not really stupidity. It’s a matter of Bob’s stable has gotten too big for his britches and there is honestly no way he could know every individual horse under his umbrella.

Sorry, stop making excuses for BB.

For giggles, I looked at starts over the last 5 years for 3 BNTs (chosen because they were the first names that popped into my head).

BB averaged 344 starts per year 2016-2020
Pletcher, 1206 starts per year 2016-2020
Asmussen (Steve) 1980 starts per year 2016-2020

So, where is this massively huge stable roster you speak of that BB can’t remember each horse? Don’t see either of the other two trainers having the same memory issues that you feel BB has.

Not saying Pletcher or Asmussen are squeaky clean but IMO clearly not the same ‘contamination’ or drug positives that BB is racking up.

@snaffle1987

He brought Medina Spirit there for the ownership and a good time. Perhaps the lack of confidence in winning or hitting the board led things to be extra lapse. He had no reason to believe the horse would ever be tested. But this is horse racing and Bob should know better. Anything can happen on Derby day

Got BB on speed dial again that you know why he brought Medina Spirit to the Derby? Medina Spirit was sent off at odds of 12/1, sixth best of 19 horses. Doesn’t sound to me like this was a horse that ‘came for fun’. True, if every horse ran true to race time odds Medina Spirit would have finished sixth and probably would not have been tested. Any trainer stupid enough to show up with a horse that knowingly would test positive but assuming their horse wouldn’t be tested should be banned for life, not given a pat on the head and sent out the door to try again next year.

[snaffle1987]

Um no where was I making excuses for BB. I am practically the leader of the anti BB movement in my brain. But thanks.

I did not say that BB had a massively huge stable. But larger than many racing everyday and he has pretty much limited himself to mainly Santa Anita/So Cal track meets. Unlike Steve A who runs at many tracks

Also; go read the BB interviews on Medina Spirit prior to the Derby. He has openly said repeatedly to the press that they wouldn’t be looking to speak to him after the race was over and he was showing up with a horse he thought would be top 5 but had no shot of winning. It’s in quotations in several articles. Was he playing his usually BB coy-self trying to ham up the press; perhaps. But he said what he said.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@snaffle1987

there is honestly no way he could know every individual horse under his umbrella.

This sure sounded like an excuse to me

[Simkie]

@Maythehorsebewithme

That explains the delay, but of course will not change the ultimate outcome. You would think he would want to just get it over with–his reputation is not getting better with time.

Oh noooooo. He wants to delay as long as possible so the people have forgotten and the news cycle moves on. If that split sample comes back positive in, say, September…do you think nearly ANYONE will care? Do you think it’ll be reported by major news at all? The vast majority will have entirely forgotten.

The longer Baffert delays, the less attention there will be. And fewer people will remember or care the longer this goes out of the news cycle.

[Maythehorsebewithme]

Never heard it called this, “The Absolute Insurer Rule”, but it sounds like a good idea.

Heleringer: Will The Absolute Insurer Rule Save Racing … Again? - Horse...

Maybe the BNTs would take a more hands-on approach if there were no excuses allowed.

[LaurieB]

@Maythehorsebewithme

Never heard it called this, “The Absolute Insurer Rule”, but it sounds like a good idea.

Horse Racing News | Paulick Report – 17 May 21

Heleringer: Will The Absolute Insurer Rule Save Racing … Again? - Horse…

“Doped” horses. “Hopped” horses. “Drugged” horses. Cheating. Indictments. Scandals. Let the bettor beware. Those terms don’t describe the current conditions in horse racing, but the overarching problems that dogged the sport nearly 90 years ago when…

Est. reading time: 7 minutes

Maybe the BNTs would take a more hands-on approach if there were no excuses allowed.

The Absolute Insurer Rule is already in place in most racing jurisdictions, including Kentucky.

[Texarkana]

Bob knows the Absolute Insurer rule.

What usually happens with these split samples and BNTs is they delay until a convenient time, like post Breeders Cup, and quietly serve their suspension before the Triple Crown prep races hit high gear. Which is exactly what BB will do unless someone actually comes down on him with a substantial penalty.