Might this be related to falls in eventing?

[North_Dakota]

@Highflyer

Human athletes are a lot less likely to kick/trample their physical therapists or try to kill themselves. A lot of vets recommend stall rest as a compromise that most people can actually manage safely.

I have nothing to add other than I loved this post. There are days where I really would have liked to kick my PT and have it be acceptable to a degree because I was on stall rest!

[Sticky_Situation]

Holy leaps in reasoning and making recommendations based on no evidence whatsoever Batman!

@RAyers explained it well … giddy aunt and all.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Jealoushe

This is what I have been thinking and trying to say for years. Without research, we have no clue what underlying causes could be.

Bearing in mind that race horses that die are necropsied to understand and track “what happened”… yeah, Bobby Abu Dhabi’s actual cause of breakdown and death was discovered during necropsy and yes, differed from the suggested cause based on eyewitness reports (I don’t think any video was available as the incident happened during training, not during a race).

I also though that FEI horses had a mandated necropsy if they died during competition (so a bit of a narrower window than when race horses have mandatory necropsies).

Maybe an assumption that there is no research when it appears to me that data is being collected. In the case of FEI, one would probably need to subpoena a necropsy as public release isn’t mandatory. For race horses, it was a FOI request (IIRC) that got the necropsy released.

Not all information is released to the public and research may be taking place without public scrutiny, no?

[Jealoushe]

@Where'sMyWhite

Not all information is released to the public and research may be taking place without public scrutiny, no?

Why would it be private? There is some research happening now, in the last year I have seen a few studies happening. However for me it still feels a bit, too little too late. What data is being mined? No one seems to know…

I also think the public should get to know what happened in these events, either horse deaths, falls, or rider deaths. No we aren’t entitled to it, but perhaps things could get a bit further if this information was made public, if it exists. at all.

[Wanderosa]

@eqsiu

Occam’s Razor.

If you think bitless bridles can’t “contort and manipulate” a horse you may be missing some biomechanical knowledge.

<-- Has master’s degree in biomedical engineering.

If you want to discuss how bad riding can cause fatigue and increase fall risk I am all for it. But to isolate bad riding to just presence of a bit is grossly oversimplifying things. It’s also not a great idea to use changes in pace. Because it is clearly unsafe to jump many cross country jumps without collecting the horse so arguing that collection is contortion is like saying it’s okay to fly through a tricky combo strung out. And speed is not the same as strung out. This is another case where the fitness of the horse may be lacking.

Expanding on this - it’s my belief that raw speed does not necessarily equate to strength in a horse. Most young OTTB are actually pretty weak. I suspect that spinal weakness combined with subtle rider imbalance is the cause of a lot of bucking and other avoidant behaviors. It’s been interesting to watch the progress of a OTTB they got on long-term loan at the barn this spring. He’s in his teens, but I thought from the weak top line that he had just come off the track. He’d been doing Western pleasure/basic hunter type work. Long and low all day long. Had never jumped. The first time my friend urged him to a canter, I was thinking that he could be forgiven for bucking on the upward transition because it was such a strain on that weak back to carry a rider while negotiating the necessary changes to his own balance from trot to canter. He certainly has a ways to go, but the change to his top line having been jumping low courses for a few months is remarkable.

[CSU92]

I like the initial observation that the system was designed to work best with no air in the oral cavity. The soft palate remains “stuck” to the base of the tongue in the same way that the lung is stuck to the chest wall. Air added to the oral cavity (or the pleural space) might allow the palate to billow upwards (or the lung to collapse).

I don’t think i’m convinced that every horse galloping with a bit in the mouth has a billowing soft palate.

The next time you watch a helmetcam round, pay close attention to the horse’s respiratory sound and pattern. I think there is a lot to be learned with what we already have available. One of Dr. Cooks assertions might be illustrated if the sound of inspiration changes on the video once the horse comes off course and is allowed to swallow and recover.

[eqsiu]

I can certainly breath through my nose with my mouth open. Even with a pen gripped in my teeth. One assumes that the back of a horse’s tongue is mobile enough to close the throat off from the mouth in a similar fashion. But maybe not. Either way Dr. Cook’s article doesn’t seem to know for sure. A facebook friend posted this, and I pointed out the problems in the science. Doncha know I must not be an open minded person because her horse stopped bucking when she went bitless. Of course she also doesn’t deworm her horses because of evil chemicals and uses clove oil instead.