[QUOTE=toady123;8543204]
With that said, the second photo show a horse that looks very ouchy (I realize it could just be the photo, but given they say they have a horse with navicular…). I wonder if euthanasia is being considered for him?[/QUOTE]
I agree.
[QUOTE=toady123;8543204]
Given their history I am sure there will be a benefactor who will ensure they land softly. At least I would guess they have a better shot then the average horse passed along.
With that said, the second photo show a horse that looks very ouchy (I realize it could just be the photo, but given they say they have a horse with navicular…). I wonder if euthanasia is being considered for him?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=o0rxkxrox0o;8543382]You may be right.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/retired-guard-caisson-horses-adoption/story?id=37117752
That has labeled pictures and if they’re correct, the navicular horse is the top one. Kickie McGee is the bottom one.
Another article, more pictures: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/free-to-a-good-home-horses-who-have-served-their-country/2016/02/21/3de74d3a-d4f6-11e5-9823-02b905009f99_story.html[/QUOTE]
If the pictures are properly labeled (and from Quincy’s markings I think they are), the bottom picture isn’t the horse with navicular.
even if not… that isn’t a good stance for any horse
[QUOTE=Nootka;8543479]
even if not… that isn’t a good stance for any horse[/QUOTE]
Maybe, without knowing the circumstances it’s hard to say. He could have been cranky at being tied and if he’s the kicker, about to give the wall of the barn a love tap.
[QUOTE=o0rxkxrox0o;8543362]
They seem to get retired at about 17. They still have a good (likely)10 - 15 years ahead of them. Have you never had a horse that enjoys working? You’re recommending that a horse in basically the prime of it’s life be euthanized just because it can’t adjust to being tossed in a field and retired. What a short sighted and ridiculous view.
2 sources.
Yeah that sure sounds like “being flogged to the public” to me. They have stricter adoption policies than most rescues.[/QUOTE]
“For a Caisson horse to qualify for adoption they need to be at least 17 years of age or have 10 years of service. At that point, the unit’s veterinarian will suggest if the horse should be considered for adoption.”
I’m sorry we disagree, but I think it’s absolutely disgusting that the State offloads their duds and retirees on the public instead of properly retiring them. In terms of your ridiculous assumption, no, I don’t think a sound horse should be euthanized instead of retired. I think UNSOUND horses that can’t cope with retirement should be euthanized instead of sent to Joe Public to take care of for god only knows how many years when there are so many needy horses in rescues.
Frankly, I don’t give a rat’s ass how tight their adoption procedure is, they shouldn’t be doing it. If they want a hand in adoption to help horses (instead of just helping their budget) then team up with rescues, put the name of the institution behind a worthy cause.
No matter which way it’s divided and examined it’s a slick PR bullshit routine to cut their budget and absolve the institution of its duties and responsibilities.
[QUOTE=Anne FS;8543435]
They ARE getting a proper retirement. That’s the whole point of the applications for them to retire properly instead of spending their declining years at the stabling in Arlington. Have you been there? I have.
And just imagine the outrage, the screaming, hysterical outrage if President Obama announced that he was going to use taxpayer money to fund a retirement home for horses.[/QUOTE]
Wow, proper retirement is being pawned off on the public? Oh, right, like your vets are too.
If the voters can’t cope with dealing with retiring the caisson horses properly, then the voters really have no right to have caisson horses at all. Oh wait, I’m talking to America where having cake and eating it too is the perceived norm and where eating up every last scrap of PR bullshit is also perfectly acceptable.
[QUOTE=sascha;8543349]
Where are these people when rescue horses that haven’t had a perceived prestigious career need adopting?[/QUOTE]
Oh, I can answer this…
These horses are trained to deal with lots of things that would make the average horse spook and run for the hills.
It is not because they have a ‘perceived prestigious career’ it is because they have good training that makes them very useful to anyone who wants a relatively bombproof horse.
They have years of use left in them, so there is no reason to toss them in a pasture to do nothing when they can happily serve in a job with lower demands.
[QUOTE=sascha;8543520]
If they want a hand in adoption to help horses (instead of just helping their budget) then team up with rescues, [/QUOTE]
Oh, hell, no. Way too many horse “rescues” end up starving their horses to death.
And the whole “but there are other horses in need of adoption” instead argument has no credibility. It’s not Arlington’s fault that there are so many irresponsible horse owners and shady rescues.
[QUOTE=sascha;8543342]
I think the original poster’s point lies somewhere along the lines of how I feel about it. I think it’s disgusting.
There are enough privately owned horses that have fallen on hard times and need to be adopted. Horses that have been in service to the flipping government deserve a proper retirement and it’s a damned shame that the government is too stupid to factor that into their calculations.
To me, it appears they give as much shit about their service horses as they do to their veterans. It’s appalling. These horses that have served their country for years should not have to be flogged to the general public. They should either be properly retired under the care of the state, or they should be euthanized if not suitable to live a quiet retirement life.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, who knows where I could have gotten that idea from. You certainly didn’t clarify sound vs. unsound in your first post, just that they should be euthanized if they can’t retire quietly. There are varying degrees of unsound, and some horses just love working. They may not be able to work to the degree that is needed for caisson horses but may make fine husband or children’s mounts.
Frankly, I don’t give a rat’s ass how tight their adoption procedure is, they shouldn’t be doing it. If they want a hand in adoption to help horses (instead of just helping their budget) then team up with rescues, put the name of the institution behind a worthy cause.
I’m pretty sure most reputable (and generally full to capacity) rescues don’t want to take on even more horses, especially ones with what are essentially owners who are willing to do a thorough vetting process on any potential owners. That’s just super logical and a great use of already limited resources.
No matter which way it’s divided and examined it’s a slick PR bullshit routine to cut their budget and absolve the institution of its duties and responsibilities.
It’s definitely good PR, but it’s not as simple as you want it to be.
- Non-Adoptive Procedures and Requirements.
a. If, after efforts have been made to secure a retiring Caisson horse’s adoption but
such adoption fails, or is either not feasible or supportable; the Caisson Platoon Leader
will make the recommendation to the Regimental Commander regarding alternate
options available for the horse’s retirement. The Caisson Platoon Leader is to make
such recommendation after consultation with JBM-HH Veterinarian and should address
such options as processing the horse’s retirement through DRMO, or provision to a
sanctuary or therapeutic riding program.
b. In lieu of selecting an adopter for a retiring Caisson horse, the adoption
committee reserves the right to either send the horse to a horse sanctuary or for
utilization in a therapeutic riding program. If the adoption committee decides to
contribute a retiring Caisson horse to a therapeutic riding program and more than one
program requests the horse, then the committee will vote to determine which program
the horse will be placed.
c. Below are the chronological steps required for retiring a Caisson horse when
adoption is not utilized (Non-Adoption).
more here: http://www.oldguard.mdw.army.mil/docs/default-source/adopt-a-horse/policy14.pdf?sfvrsn=4
Now, if it passes through all the other stopgaps in the linked memo, it COULD be up for auction, but given all of the people who step up wanting to adopt and the offer of a sanctuary placement, I really have to wonder how many (if any) ever get that far.
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;8543137]
And the QH with navicular? Not like he’s going to get a good home. With all the money or government wastes, you’d think they could retire these horses to a good pasture. Note: The queen of England gives retirement homes to her horses and to police horses.[/QUOTE]
Navicular is not an end all. A friend of mine has a young mare that was diagnosed with navicular. With shoes and careful trimming she is able to w/t/c, trail ride, and go to cow horse clinics just fine.
If you’ve ever looked into a caisson platoon horse, the application is quite strict. And the horses will certainly have a work ethic. And I suspect they’re required to offer them for adoption rather than take the more practical option of euthanizing (otherwise I’d think they’d just put Quincy down. He’s young to retire but sounds like an expensive maintenance project with limited usability. That’s not a project I’d want to take on. I’d apply for the other one, though, if I had space and time for another horse.)
[QUOTE=RubyTuesday;8543446]
I’d be mad myself if they just euthanized them without offering them.[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t.
As in true government fashion they are about to sucker 2 tax paying citizens into adopting a known kicker and a crippled horse. The honorable thing is to euthanize both of them.
[QUOTE=Draftmare;8543660]
Navicular is not an end all. A friend of mine has a young mare that was diagnosed with navicular. With shoes and careful trimming she is able to w/t/c, trail ride, and go to cow horse clinics just fine.[/QUOTE]
According their own description, it seems quite mild and manageable.
Quincy is an 11-year old, black Quarter Horse gelding. His service with the Caisson Platoon has been short due to being diagnosed with navicular disease.
Quincy’s feet have very thin soles which make him sensitive to hard ground when he is not shod. The therapeutic shoe that Quincy must wear limits his ability to be used as a Caisson Horse. He is on long term isoxuprine which provides increased blood flow to the navicular bone, although he still is lame without shoes and even painful to be shod.
Quincy is one of the most popular horses in the Caisson Stables. He is known to be very loving and enthusiastic towards visitors and especially children. He could be maintained with proper shoeing and medication. It is recommended that the adopter limit contact with hard ground and endurance riding.
Quincy is current for all shots and Coggins test.
And for Kennedy:
Kennedy is a 15-year old, black Standardbred gelding at 14.3 hands. He was purchased after he retired from racing and groomed as a potential Caparison horse to be used for the Caisson Platoon mission.
Kennedy is a handsome animal and was quite impressive as the “rider less” horse. However, he was asked to leave the Cemetery permanently by the Regimental Commander for kicking and striking out with back legs at cars and Soldiers.
Since Kennedy is not permitted to fulfill a role with the Caisson Platoon, he is declared not serviceable at this time. Kennedy must be adopted out to an experienced trainer and/or rider because of behavior not suitable for the mission of the U.S. Army Caisson Platoon.
Kennedy has no current medical conditions and is current for all shots and Coggins test.
I for one appreciate them being brutally honest about any shortcomings the horses may have. I feel like it means the adopters will be less likely to dump them in the future.
This is one of those situations where no matter what they do with these horses there will be people insisting they are wrong.
Thanks for posting that, oOkxrx - I wondered if anyone else had followed the link and read the descriptions of the horses. All opinions on whether or not it’s right for the military to adopt these horses out aside, I thought the descriptions of these individual horses were some of the most honest reading ones that I’ve ever seen. I’m really impressed and applaud that honesty. This does not sound like an organization that’s trying to “dump” horses on unsuspecting or naïve adopters, but rather one that wants to see horses who may not be suitable for a difficult job get good, lifetime homes.
Dishonorable discharge for Kennedy! Sounds like he has quite the attitude. He would be the harder placement, I think.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8543179]
This is one of the silliest posts I’ve read lately.
If you want to apply, apply. If you don’t, don’t. Don’t excoriate an organization about which you clearly know nothing.
G.
CDR, USNR(Ret)[/QUOTE]
!!!Yes!!!
Sorry Guilherme, my keyboard doesn’t upside down exclamations.
[QUOTE=candyappy;8543723]
I wouldn’t.
As in true government fashion they are about to sucker 2 tax paying citizens into adopting a known kicker and a crippled horse. The honorable thing is to euthanize both of them.[/QUOTE]
HOW are people being suckered?!?! Did you even read about these particular horses? I think there is about as much disclosure here as there can be!
Why not just give them a good month at grass and euthanize them?
An unsound navicular case and a kicker.
That sounds responsible.
I say OP, do a petition and give these horses a break.
Honestly. I live in an area where horses devolve toward the killer’s pen because of this kind of irresponsibility.
I’m not happy about this. These horses did serve. They ARE pawning off end of life decisions onto someone who may not be prepared for this.
We won’t go into the mustang sales I’ve been to. You folks ought to come on out and watch people roll up with their ill-prepared-for-a-feral-horse trailers. That’s worth watching.
Only after the cowboy diddles around with some natural horsemanship and makes it look like you can back one in one day.
Suckered, yes.
Poor horses.
If they were just pawning the horses off, they’d ship them off to an auction with no disclosure of their issues. Instead, they’ve decided to offer them for adoption, giving info about the horses, and going through the trouble of finding the right home for them. If you don’t want to deal with a kicker or a navicular case, don’t adopt. Simple enough.
I’m sure if they just euthanized them and some people on this board found out, there’d be an outraged thread about that. So its damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
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