Baby steps, just baby steps…
Not quite true although the circumstances are definitely different. World Tour level cycling (this is the difference, point to point), multiple ambulances follow the peloton. Yes, cyclists have died or had their careers halted due to race riding injuries.
Car racing does not have ambulances on the track as that would be a safety risk. But, typically the infield has both a care center and ambulance and often helicopter.
Quote-I got my OTTB at 4 a couple months off the track, and brought him from there to regional championships at Training and First, and a day championship at Second with zero pro rides before having kids stopped me. That doesn’t make me a racing authority but it does answer your rather snide question.-Unquote
That makes you far from an authority on racing. Now if you say you’d evented successfully at Prelim or above, I might give you a little credence.
There is a reason an intelligent, educated rider rides every stride. In racing a .10 of a second too late is way too late. And in CC some horses need to be reminded to listen up now, or to put a little more effort in than they think is necessary. Rotational falls are the pits.
And what does THAT have to do with racing?
I mean, if we’re going to discredit anyone who hasn’t sat aboard a racehorse, we’re going to nix quite a few people I think. Lots of people here insert their knowledge where they feel to be experts, despite the other party being fully qualified. See the Foal Watch thread for the common theme.
amen.
I agree completely, I wouldn’t have brought it up if I hadn’t been directly asked if I rode at all. And I said as much.
I’m more fixated on the fact that we have one person who has experience with a similar rule saying it was actually Ok, and it doesn’t look like those objecting have similar comparative experience.
Can we agree the rule is largely about optics? If that’s the case maybe being allowed to use it turned down, but not one handed would be an acceptable compromise? Currently the whip is definitely used for more than just safety, and more than just a “tap”, and more than just to “get their attention”.
I think many are failing to look at the entire picture. 99% of whip use is used from the point of the stretch to the finish line. 99% of the time it is used on a horse; it is done to urge them to run faster. The whip is rarely, if ever, used at any other point on the racetrack for safety and steering issues. It is just about frowned upon to use the whip at any other stage in the race and if a rider has to go to the whip early on the far turn; it’s considered a bad thing because a Jockey feels a horse is tiring early.
If the whip was used to get a horse to pay attention or for steering; we would see whips used constantly throughout a race; so quite honestly I think that’s a moot point and the logic behind it can’t be backed by fact. Grasping at strings.
I have seen more almost-accidents in a stretch of a race from a horse shying away from a hit and ducking right or left than I have seen life saving acts made from use of a whip. Let’s be honest with ourselves; if a horse and rider encounter an immediate steering issue that would require immediate action; the last thing Jockeys do is bridge their reins and hit a horse to make it turn (unless a horse ducked at the corner and is heading back for the barn type of scenario). They steer using both hands in emergency situations.
I think the absolutely no-hit rule is slightly excessive. That being said; the racing industry needs to start taking a cold, hard look at themselves before the entirety goes up in smoke. Between the BB Drug scandal on the biggest stage, Parx being raided and finding hoards of illegal drugs, etc, horses breaking down in some of the worlds’ biggest races, and the industry vehemently denying any sort of rules over hitting horses with whips. The industry relies on bettors and the general public supporting it. The racetracks that are left are located on prime real estate land. The industry needs to start embracing change for the betterment of the equine athletes or the sport will die. This is not 1955 anymore and we as an industry should know far better than what is occurring within the sport right now. Victor Espinosa practically beat the snot out of American Pharoah down the entirety of the stretch in the Derby and no one said a word.
I am in full support of a hit limit but I think it should be far less than even 7 hits.
Is there a love button? This is exactly what I was trying to express while being kept awake by a baby last night!
Just because you don’t see it doesn’t mean it never happens. A rider uses a quick flick of the wrist on a horse as soon as he feels it lugging and viewers will never know the horse could have ended up in the 5-path off the rail.
A good dressage rider gives a tap with the whip immediately when a horse lacks forward, or ignores a leg aid. A leg yield starts off lazy for 1 step and then instantly the horse crosses over with a tap of the whip and the movement flows smoothly. Or a lesser rider doesn’t recognize the lazy hind leg, keeps pushing with leg, then pushing with seat (now sitting crooked) while the horse drags along leading shoulder, neck over bent, hind end trailing, in a terrible leg yield because the horse wasn’t responsive.
Jockeys don’t have leg aids. They don’t have seat aids. All they have is the horse’s natural desire to go forward, aided with a whip if needed. Of course a horse shouldn’t be beaten. No one is arguing that. But until you’ve sat on a racehorse at speed in a postage stamp of a saddle…and felt that horse drift, prop, or lean… you really can’t say that jockeys don’t need whips. A smack on the shoulder, a fan down the neck, all has its place and so does a whack on the haunch if the horse ignores the aid to go forward.
I never said Jockeys don’t need whips. I am in full support of them carrying them. As is Monmouth. But the industry in the United States needs to stop supporting the all out beatings that are occurring the stretch drives of some of these races. If the industry can’t come out and acknowledge it’s a problem and act on it with support from within; the industry is continuing to dig it’s own grave.
The industry has already done that. Nearly every major racing jurisdiction now has a whip rule. Unless you are watching racing at small tracks and fairgrounds you haven’t seen anyone whip a horse down the stretch in at least two years. And yes, that rule was long overdue.
No surprise, PETA has issued a statement praising Monmouth Park. So I guess we know who actually crafted the whip rule.
PETA Releases Statement on New Monmouth Whip Rule (thoroughbreddailynews.com)
@endless climb/ [Quote]And what does THAT have to do with racing?
I mean, if we’re going to discredit anyone who hasn’t sat aboard a racehorse, we’re going to nix quite a few people I think. Lots of people here insert their knowledge where they feel to be experts, despite the other party being fully qualified. See the Foal Watch thread for the common theme.[Quote]
If ever you’d faced 11-13 3’7" obstacles at 550 meters per minute, uphill, downhill on uneven ground. or Advanced 13-14 4"1solid obstacles over terrain, at 570mpm, you’d understand the correlating use of a whip. Although at that level both horse and rider know their job, sometimes…
So while it’s not racing in a pack, the judicious use of a whip, which all riders carry (at measured length) is frequently necessary. Overuse is penalized.
If you have evented successfully at Prelim or above, you have experience controlling a horse at a gallop, even if not “race-horse-speed”
Well, the originator of the comment said it had to do with how to use a whip. So I guess we’re just making stuff up now, as to who can comment on this issue.
If you do competitive driving, you’d be qualified, but since you don’t…
And you have probably had a glimpse of the consequences if a horse has a moment of hesitation and needed forward encouragement NOW off the ground.
Most riders at Prelim and above use their whip very minimally. Maybe once per course. Maybe once a month. Maybe once a year. But when you need it, you NEED IT…like a weak takeoff over a max table or huge ditch and wall where lack of impulsion could kill you.
@TBKite wrote this as a direct response to my question asking if she rides horses. There’s no reason to be unkind. She was just answering my question.
I would assume, being an astute study of the sport, that at most tracks in most jurisdictions, you are aware if a jockey “beats” a horse down the stretch there are usually fines and/or days off.
Actually they did. Times have changed.
The new whip rule was passed in Kentucky in June of 2020. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2896453-kentucky-horse-racing-commission-announces-new-rule-limiting-jockey-whip-use
Did Australia banning whips in harness racing lead to the flood of safety problems as people claimed would happen? If so, I haven’t read about it. If a driver can drive safely with just reins, and maybe voice, how is a jockey at more of a disadvantage? times are changing indeed.
Well, higher speed for starters. A different breed with different reactivity and different methods of training. Different situations, such as having to load into a starting gate. I don’t think it’s a direct comparison at all.
Being such a short meeting with horses and jockeys shipping in from everywhere, Monmouth is an unusual location to spearhead this. A few years ago a green as grass COTHer got a job doing some exercise riding for a trainer planning to ship to Monmouth. IIRC the trainer had her riding at a regular boarding barn, doing laps around the arena for 45 minutes. Really unconventional for race training. You get a higher proportion of trainers shipping in from unlicensed facilities at a place like Monmouth, therefore you hear more of these types of stories. That would make me nervous as a jockey to lose an aide knowing (or not knowing) the horse’s training.
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