More riding troubles

There are fewer and fewer lesson barns. The ones still around are often on very tight budgets and are run by people who might not have had much decent instruction themselves. When the student doesn’t really have a baseline of what is normal, it’s very easy to blame bad behavior on the student’s riding versus the horse.

Of course, yes, that is 100% true to some extent (referencing the earlier meme). But an instructor isn’t going to admit, “Pooky the pony is soured to the point she won’t canter unless the rider has legs of steel,” or “Frankie is an off-the-track Standardbred that even the trainer’s assistant riders can’t get to canter for more than half a ring,” or “Dobbin is footsore and does three lessons a day, and will stop if you so much as try to steer him off the rail and refuse to budge,” or “this horse’s tack doesn’t fit him properly, but the barn’s too broke to find him anything but this.”

Because beginner riders don’t know, and frankly, there is always something they are doing wrong because they are just learning, they don’t realize that even when they’re doing it right and not getting positive feedback from the horse that something else is up. And sometimes from the barn’s perspective, the objective is for the students to keep coming back and keep paying, rather than for the students to really learn.

I agree the situation is b.s. and the cart horse story, based on the little video I saw, sounds pretty suspicious. Some lesson barns love to tell the riders super-dramatic stories about the horses, and sometimes it’s easier to make up a story than untrain that behavior.

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This too.

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The problem is that people do not know what they do not know.

To a beginner anyone on a horse or with a horse is better than they are. They do not know that all those horses are in draw reins or being trained with see-sawing and rollkur.

I remember at the Outback Spectacular a horse and rider went by us. Hubby, his sister and I gasped. Beginner sister gasped at how beautiful it was. Hubby and I gasped by how horribly the horse was being treated.

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If I ever catch it when I video my rides, I’ll post it. It’s not some giant thing. I don’t make a big deal about it, but I don’t allow it to continue indefinitely.

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I think OP is a junior beginner who may not have a lot of options for a barn.

It can be hard to figure out horse vs rider at the early stages. When I returned to lessons as an adult I was quite humbled by what I couldn’t get done, yet they were decent horses and 3 years later I could do all kinds of stuff.

More recently I had the ride on an aged school mistress for a year, from the first ride we clicked and I could get her whole arena repertoire. After she went back to my coach’s barn, she was used in intermediate lessons and I recall there was an adult returning rider who wasn’t bad but simply could not keep her on the rail. That wasn’t even on my list of challenges with that horse.

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Findeight, I think you’ve got it spot on. It’s a very sad situation when owners or trainers are either genuinely, or purposely ignorant .

Can’t tell an actually competent horseman or horsewomen from a con artist?
If you (general “you”) care, if you believe that horses are noble beasts and that we are lucky to have such a great connection with them, then you will educate yourself, as you would about any other complex subject that you are spending time to learn.

Read extensively, find mentors with credentials, local to you if possible, and please, not the latest person with a marketing scheme. If you really want to learn , there are people who will teach you and they are often not the ones that will be charging you exorbitant amounts of money.

Do your due diligence, get out there, ask questions and learn. All involved, horses and people, suffer needlessly when people can’t be bothered to take the time to learn about what they claim is their “passion”.

Training horses properly is not easy. If you are not well taught and humble, you won’t succeed in backing or training a horse properly at any level, for any discipline. :wink:

I am surprised that people actually pay for hoodoo horse training garbage online , when they can find such better advice just by asking experienced horse people. Good advice has been happening on COTH for decades, and the dubious advice, has always been well questioned and debated. :laughing:

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What you are dealing with might not be a behavioral problem at all. Horses who are affected by trigeminal-mediated headshaking (TMHS) caused by hypersensitivity of the trigeminal nerve in the horses face, may display signs such as muzzle rubbing on the forelimbs and sudden flicks of the head, as if an insect has flown up the nose, not just head shaking. Often the problem is seasonal. Often the problem occurs during exercise. Often the nerve pain is sufficient for the horse to panic. Perhaps ask your vet to do a clinical examination for neck pain, dental issues, ear problems, ear pain and sinus pain to exclude them as the root cause. Try to work out if there are particular stimulants or situations that trigger the behaviour - and yes, that might just be exercise. Nose nets can be useful management tools for many horses, for some reason that I don’t believe has ever been understood. TMHS can be difficult to pin down.

Horse behavior is all about trying to communicate, to tell their human something. If the quiet comment is missed, they sometimes have to shout (i.e. “misbehave”) to be heard.

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And sometimes if you hear hoofbeats? Stop looking for a Zebra.

ETA for those unfamiliar with the expression…often the answer is the obvious one but overthinking and/or not agreeing with that answer because its not what we want to hear sends us off looking for easier and often less costly solutions. Hence the popularity of miracle training hoohah and a supplement for everything.

Most problems posted on here in the last 20 years are best solved by a suitable horse, proper training for the horse, better care, better educated owners, better educated riding and a good VET and willingness to admit horse needs that vet. These are not quick fixes.

Its OK to admit what you are doing is not working and maybe you made a mistake or two and need to make sone changes but you have to admit it before you can fix it.

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Horses in pain can also act out in the ways you describe. If he feels pain while being ridden, he will want to avoid being caught.

He might do better temporarily with a more advanced rider if they can help him use himself in a way that hurts less, but this sure sounds like a horse who has developed bad behaviours in response to pain of some sort.

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I agree with this, there may very likely be something underlying going on. It’s entirely possible he behaved for your trainer vs you because it was easier/less painful for him to comply than be reprimanded by a stronger rider.

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I agree that you need to stop riding this horse. Honestly I would not be riding this horse. All the behaviors you mention here are about pain, whether that is his leg, his back, his neck or saddle fit.

Yes, a horse pro with a driving seat and a sense of purpose can often bully a sore lesson horse into working through his injuries for a few times but guaranteed a horse in pain would escalate his behavior over time with the pro too. And that is not how I want to ride my own horse. I’ve watched folks ride their horses through “not quite right” thinking it’s a training or behavior issue and end up with catastrophic injuries (suspensory issues can be bad this way).

In other words this is not a naughty horse but one with undiagnosed injuries. However it’s not your place to sink thousands of dollars into medical imaging to figure out his problems. I’m guessing your lesson barn does not have the cash either.

The takeaway for you going forward is that this is a horse in pain, not a naughty horse. You really need to learn and believe that now, because otherwise you will learn it the hard way when you push your dream horse young high dollar warmblood through a “resistance” and end up euthanizing him for shredded suspensories.

That said lesson barns in general deal in the low end of nice horses and dont have cash for unlimited diagnostics. Some lesson programs all the horses have a bit of a hitch in their stride. No coach will admit the horses are lame unless there is actually blood running down the body. They will put on a good face to clients and say he’s naughty. It’s very bad horsemanship training for students because honestly one of the most important skills for a horse owner is spotting and fixing subtle or obvious lameness.

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Take whatever extra money you were spending on the lease and put it toward an additional lesson each week.

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The sudden onset of bolting and bucking after returning to work is a little disturbing, but the bigger sign to me is the ear-pinning and attmepting to kick when approached. Something is wrong with this horse, and you’re right to think that continuing to lease him isn’t a great idea at this point.

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I agree with the others the horse is in pain. Add in an extra lesson until another horse comes open for lease. Things have a way of working out.

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Why are you taking lessons at this place?

Your “coach” has half-leased to you a horse that is in every way unsuitable for a beginner. They put you on a horse behaving dangerously. And they ignored the very obvious signs of pain the horse was trying to show.

When the horse was misbehaving before the injury, the “coach” should have taken steps to correct the situation immediately. They didn’t. It doesn’t even sound like this horse was remotely a good candidate for a beginner - so why did the coach offer you a lease? They should have known better.

End the lease, run, and don’t look back.

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I agree, 100%, but I think the reason more people aren’t advising her to run is that sadly there are fewer and fewer lesson barns offering part-leases and lessons to beginning kids who can’t afford their own horses. I hate to say it, but many (most?) have the objective of getting as many butts as possible in group lessons, and as many horses half-leased out as possible, even if the horses might not be the best match (to put it politely) for the student.

OP, you’re young, but no matter what your age, if a situation doesn’t feel safe, it’s not wimpy to say “no.” Ultimately, you’re there for instruction and to have fun. I understand if it’s the best lesson barn you can afford and in your area (been there, done that), but even if your instructor has more experience than you, it’s okay to draw boundaries.

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OP, please realize if you do end up with a lease/partlease/shareboard horse that is halfway decent and that cleans up and improves with your riding and the lessons you are paying for on top of the lease expenses you are paying for? Its still not your horse and the owner often sells them right out from under you, as is their right, its their horse. All you get is whatever notice your contract specifies, if its not in the contract, you show up and the horse is gone.

This is most common in lesson barns. They buy cheap (auction or from another trainer who had the winning bid and does a quick flip) with no regard for its history, get somebody else to pay for its expenses and training via lessons plus serve as a crash test dummy. If it does not work out, they haul it back to the auction and lie about a little girl falling in love with it buying it. You just show up and its not there.

If if does work out, they will take the first offer from a buyer. They might tell you about the offer so you can counter with a larger one immediately. Most often they just load it up in buyers trailer and you show up for your lesson and find horse gone, it is their horse.

OP, horses like this in barns like this will sooner or later hurt somebody, often scaring them (and their parents) so badly they walk away from horses for life. These barns have no business putting novices on saddle broke but untrained, unsound horses like this and making them pay for lease and lessons on it to get it “trained”. They are supposed to be the trainers.

Theres nothing wrong with leasing and paying for lessons on a safe, trained, serviceably sound horse in a school program, that is worth paying for. If the choice is an unsound, unhappy horse you cannot get around the arena at a canter who tries to bolt, buck you off and kick? Who will sooner or later really hurt you, intentionally or not, and send you to the ER, at your expense on top of the lease and lesson fees?

Time to stop and reassess.

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I’m sorry, what?!

I’m just gobsmacked that your instructor would put someone who has confidence issues on a horse that is a known bolter/bucker.

You need a better lesson barn. For your own safety, please find one.

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Nope. Buh bye. Not only are you going to get hurt because they are willing to take chances with rider safety, they don’t give a dam about the well being of the horses.

Far as Earl’s miraculous recovery and calm temperament with another novice rider???

Four letter word, begins with a D. Anything to keep them going and make a buck is the reality here.

No way you should commit to any half lease or anything else with this low end lesson factory type barn. Continuing to financially support them allows them to continue.

Theres safer alternatives out there, might need to switch disciplines for a bit but you either want to ride or not, basics are basics and unsuitable, unsound horses are dangerous.

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That’s totally appropriate. He’s not working out in her program, he was likely greener than she thought, so she moved him along hopefully to someone who can sort out his issues better. That’s admirable of your coach. Lesson programs can’t afford to keep horses that are unsuitable for their clientele. It’s a business. Much smarter than leaving him in a field and paying to feed him or continuing to put students at risk.

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