Mule going to USDF finals -- History in the making!

[kande04]

[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7797684]
Wonder why? Maybe because Mom was a horse?[/QUOTE]

Mules love to be around horses because Mom was a horse, but they’re timid animals, which not only makes them submissive to horses, but is one of the issues behind many of the training problems we run into with them.

That, and they’re generally more physically insensitive than horses, so it takes a lot more pressure to inspire them to go along with what we want them to do.

What’s interesting about mules is that one can cross a mare who has a nice, cooperative disposition with a donkey with a super quiet disposition, and get a very reactive mule.

I have two mules here now that we raised out of a very sweet Halflinger mare and a nice quiet 14 hand donkey, and they’re both hell on wheels. The older mule is still spooky and reactive at 19, and the younger one is even more so at 8.

Fortunately for me I started the older one when I was in my 40’s, because now that I’m in my 60’s I don’t even want to ride the younger one! I know I could get him going under saddle, but it took so long for the older one to calm down enough so that I could ride him when I was in my 40’s, that I’m pretty sure I don’t want to go through that again now!

[kande04]

[QUOTE=CHT;7797882]
Somebody brought an Appy Mini mule to the last horse show I judged…and tied it near the show ring ALL DAY (it showed at the end in the walk/trot).

I just tried not to watch the horses at that end of the arena as a few really struggled when mr. mule started to bray! Seemed a little unfair…after all it is a HORSE show, not a horse and mule show. [/QUOTE]

Seems like a bad idea to me, too. If a horse is afraid of my mule I get him out of sight as quickly as I can, because the last thing I want to do is bring my mule to a horse show (even when I’m invited) and ruin someone’s day.

I’ve taken him to small local shows and none of the horses even seemed to notice that he was different. But he seldom brays, so probably never uttered a peep all day.

[GoForAGallop]

@kande04;7800398

Mules love to be around horses because Mom was a horse, but they’re timid animals, which not only makes them submissive to horses, but is one of the issues behind many of the training problems we run into with them.

That, and they’re generally more physically insensitive than horses, so it takes a lot more pressure to inspire them to go along with what we want them to do.

What’s interesting about mules is that one can cross a mare who has a nice, cooperative disposition with a donkey with a super quiet disposition, and get a very reactive mule.

I have two mules here now that we raised out of a very sweet Halflinger mare and a nice quiet 14 hand donkey, and they’re both hell on wheels. The older mule is still spooky and reactive at 19, and the younger one is even more so at 8.

I find this to be a very odd post. It is nothing like I have heard from any other mule owner, and I’d be curious to know if you have experience with mules outside of the two that you raised.

First, in general, they are not timid animals. They are frequently used as guard animals for that exact reason; they won’t hesitate to trot towards something scary. They’re regularly touted as fantastic trail animals, not only for their sure footedness, but because of their bravery as well. There is an ever-growing collection of older riders in my area who have swapped to mules because they feel safer on them vs a horse.

They are NOT any less sensitive to physical cues. And they don’t need “a lot more pressure to inspire them”, they simply need different training than horses. No, you are never going to be able to bully a mule into something the way you can with a horse. That is their nature and why they often get the “stubborn” stereotype, when the truth is that they come at things from a different angle than horses, and need their training to reflect that. Anyone who has had any sort of experience with mules will tell you that they are a different animal to train than a horse…not better or worse, just different.

Tying in with the timidness paragraph above, on the whole they aren’t reactive or flighty the way that horses are. I’ve interacted with a good number of mules (mule shows, etc), and on the whole their response to something scary is to puff up and stare at it. I have owned my mule for seven or eight years now (broke him out as a youngster), and I think the only time I have seen him react in a way similar to horses is when a gate closed too fast, banged, and smacked him in the butt. His response was to leap forward, trot a few steps, and then immediately turn around and stare. He was leased out to a timid adult trail rider who had had a bad fall off a spooking horse, and she said she felt safest on mules because of their lack of flight response. When she returned him to me, she bought three mules of her own.

[NoSuchPerson]

My mule experiences have been much more along the lines of GoForAGallop than kande04.

In my experience, the reason horses tend to be dominant in a herd setting is that a dominant horse is more aggressive in asserting dominance than a mule. The times that I’ve watched a group of mules sorting out herd dynamics, I’ve seen lots of posturing and threatening, but very little actual physical contact.

It is true that mules play rough, though.

Also, mules are very sensitive to pressure. They simply tend to react to it differently than a horse. Their first reaction is typically to lean into pressure rather than move away from it. It takes patience and persistence to teach them to move away from pressure, but it certainly isn’t because they are more physically insensitive than horses.

Of course, just like with horses, there is a wide range of “normal” behavior in mules.

One of my mule books has a chapter titled something like “to understand mules, you have to understand donkeys.” There are evolutionary reasons why donkeys behave the way they do, just like there are evolutionary reasons why horses behave the way they do. Mules get some from each and can be more donkey-like or more horse-like, depending on how the genetics play out.

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=mvp;7800262]
You said it! They bite each other’s knees, twisting them, trying to get the other guy to bend a front leg and fall down. You keep watching these equids (thinking “horses”) and can’t believe you are watching this level of “contact sports” in your arena, not out in the wild.[/QUOTE]

Just have to say, that is also horses - if you have a pair of colts (or even geldings), the bite face game is exactly that - start at the head and bit down to the legs, I have pics of boys on their knees biting. The girls tend to go to the hind leg quicker (and are less interested in rough housing), but boys play with teeth and front feet - that is not just a mule thing.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7800591]
Just have to say, that is also horses - if you have a pair of colts (or even geldings), the bite face game is exactly that - start at the head and bit down to the legs, I have pics of boys on their knees biting. The girls tend to go to the hind leg quicker (and are less interested in rough housing), but boys play with teeth and front feet - that is not just a mule thing.[/QUOTE]

Agree. My colt foals play VERY rough with one another. It mimics stallion “fighting”. And they always go for the front legs/knees.

Fillies & mares tend to do more running/kicking/bucking in their play.

And I agree…they are not known to be timid. There is a well known video of a mule pretty much ripping a cougar apart (it’s been around for ages…controversy as to whether the mule actually had killed the cat or if it was already dead…).

And today on FB someone posted a pic of a donk holding a (dead) coyote by his throat.

I also know plenty of people who have mules and they all agree mules & donks can be hell on dogs they don’t know and other predators.

This is the main reason I don’t have one…I have a group of heeler that can get “chase happy” with my horses from time to time. Sometimes the horses run…some times they don’t…but they tolerate all the yipping and barking.

I don’t think a mule would…

But they are awesome animals…amazingly athletic in a whole different way than horses.

[Watermark_Farm]

This is so exciting, I’m so pleased for them!

My daughter owns a mule who she showed exclusively in horse shows (dressage, hunter/jumper, unrated eventing, Pony Club) for 8 years. In all those years and with hundreds of horses, I can count only a couple of horses who really lost their gourd over him. Mostly the horses were curious and after ‘meeting’ him (a quick nose to nose sniff usually did it) they really liked him – a lot. The mule was often used as a lead horse in XC clinics to give an uncertain horse some confidence.

Today, same mule is being ridden by a 76 year old woman who plans to do her second dressage Century Club ride on him! And he’s living at a huge dressage/eventing barn where the horses hardly give him a glance.

[Pipkin]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;7800591]
Just have to say, that is also horses - if you have a pair of colts (or even geldings), the bite face game is exactly that - start at the head and bit down to the legs, I have pics of boys on their knees biting. The girls tend to go to the hind leg quicker (and are less interested in rough housing), but boys play with teeth and front feet - that is not just a mule thing.[/QUOTE]

Yes, mine do this too, but only in the winter. The grab the chest straps on each others rugs and try and tussle the other one to the ground.

I love mules, have always wanted to try riding one!

[kande04]

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;7800421]
I find this to be a very odd post. It is nothing like I have heard from any other mule owner, and I’d be curious to know if you have experience with mules outside of the two that you raised.[QUOTE]

Just the two before that, who are now in their 30’s, and my friends’ and acquaintances’ mules. Oh, and the rescues, although I don’t take any more of them because I have too many of my own.

I think the reason so many think mules are brave is because the mules that are out there working are either past the young mule stage, or they’re QH or draftX mules, or they’ve already been weeded out of the mule population. The last donkey and mule show I went to there was only one young mule under saddle, and he was 8. All the rest of them were in their 20’s.

It’s why if you get on any mule list you’ll hear variations on the saying that mules shouldn’t even be born until they’re 8.
A friend gave me a copy of a good article in Rural Heritage, or one of those kinds of pubs, by Terry Nichols, who, if I’m remembering correctly, is a professional mule trainer. He said he buys his mules as 4 year olds because it’s so much cheaper than raising them, and then he went on to describe his hobble training method. For some reason there are a lot of hobble training methods for mules.

[kande04]

@Kyzteke;7800666

I also know plenty of people who have mules and they all agree mules & donks can be hell on dogs they don’t know and other predators.

They’re not timid when it comes to varmints, and some aren’t timid at all, but the ones that wheel away every time something spooks them can be quite the challenge, because they don’t stop when they hit the end of the rope.

A friend of mine runs a donkey and mule rescue, and as she says, the donkeys often come in just as timid as the mules, but the mules take a lot longer to get over it.

[Hippolyta]

Do you think a mule smells like a horse to a horse? Is it just the sound that makes some horses nervous, or does the mule look weird to them? Would said horses also be scared of donkey sounds?

I ask b/c with minis, for example, I think some horses freak out b/c it smells like a horse, but certainly doesn’t look like any they may have seen. I have also seen the reaction to spotted horses others described - just seems weird to them if they have never encountered it. My mare had issues with a very small white pony that came to the barn one day. Funny to see giant beast terrified of tiny pony

[NoSuchPerson]

[QUOTE=Hippolyta;7801309]
Do you think a mule smells like a horse to a horse? [/QUOTE]

A mule doesn’t smell like a horse to me, so probably doesn’t to a horse, either.

I used to have a mule whose previous owners warned me was terrified of minis. I never encountered one so couldn’t verify that.

[Sannois]

[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;7801400]
A mule doesn’t smell like a horse to me, so probably doesn’t to a horse, either.

I used to have a mule whose previous owners warned me was terrified of minis. I never encountered one so couldn’t verify that.[/QUOTE]
I love mules!
And my TB was terrified of mini’s! until I retired him to a place that had 6.
He became best friends with the little stud mini. Played all day!
I have only known one mule personally. a lovely sorrel Mare? Jenny??
Molly! She was very opinionated, she either really liked you, or would bite you soon as look at you. She liked me.
She was totally low man on the pecking order in a group of 4 horses.
She was a trail ride for my best friends mom for years. And boy did she have a set of ears. I was the only one she let rub them. Miss Molly mule.
Say wasn’t their an eventer years ago who evented a mule?

[NoSuchPerson]

You know, I’ve been thinking about what kande04, GoForAGallop, and I have said about mules and it occurs to me that in some cases, we may simply be putting different interpretations on the same behavior.

For example, most people say that mules have a much stronger self-preservation sense than horses. in an unfamiliar situation, mules will often stop and assess the situation. Most of them won’t go forward unless they are sure it’s safe, although trust in their rider also plays a role. I can easily see how someone might label that “timid.” But, that quality is one reason why mules are so desirable for riding and packing in remote, rough country. They’re more likely to keep you out of trouble.

As far as the old saying that mules shouldn’t be born until they are (6,7,8), kande04’s interpretation is that it’s because young mules are timid. Having raised one myself, I say that it’s because they mature very slowly. I didn’t start mine under saddle until he was nearly 5 because he was just immature, both mentally and physically, with a short attention span and a strong “play” ethic* instead of any kind of “work” ethic. And that mule was anything but timid. So, while we agree that mules are best started late, we have different interpretations of why.

Mule story…that mule used to make a game of spooking at me and the wheelbarrow in the pasture. He would see me and spook and run away. Then, he would come back, get real close, then spook and run away. Lather, rinse, repeat for as long as I was picking poo, with occasional breaks to stop and get his ears scratched.

I love mules. :lol:

[exvet]

I’m not going to profess to be a mule expert though I’ve been around my share. Just wanted to let long ear lovers know that yesterday at a show, the S judge gave the mule/rider combo a 80.4 for the training level rider test and a 78 for one of the training level tests. It was high score for her ring and she judged training through I-2 yesterday. I realize that the rider test is just that but to have a partner to let you shine so brightly…???..fantabulous! I should also mention that the judge is well known for being on the stingy side…you always know you earn your score with her.

[vxf111]

I own the world’s quietest horse. He’s also enormous. He comes unhinged, shaking and terrified… over mini donkeys. Regular donkeys get the evil eye and continue on… mini donkeys-- terrifying. One comes to stay every x-mas for a few weeks and my poor horse basically can’t eat or sleep if the mini donk is in the barn He doesn’t seem to be getting over it.

[NJRider]

Wow, she has raised over $5,000 in just a few days on her fundraising page!

[Sannois]

[QUOTE=exvet;7801910]
I’m not going to profess to be a mule expert though I’ve been around my share. Just wanted to let long ear lovers know that yesterday at a show, the S judge gave the mule/rider combo a 80.4 for the training level rider test and a 78 for one of the training level tests. It was high score for her ring and she judged training through I-2 yesterday. I realize that the rider test is just that but to have a partner to let you shine so brightly…???..fantabulous! I should also mention that the judge is well known for being on the stingy side…you always know you earn your score with her.[/QUOTE]
That is TERRIFIC!!

[Hippolyta]

I want more mules in my life I feel like I have been cheated.

If I had a kid, they would have one for sure. Screw this nasty pony stuff

[EvieG13]

[QUOTE=Hippolyta;7801309]
Do you think a mule smells like a horse to a horse? Is it just the sound that makes some horses nervous, or does the mule look weird to them? Would said horses also be scared of donkey sounds?

I ask b/c with minis, for example, I think some horses freak out b/c it smells like a horse, but certainly doesn’t look like any they may have seen. I have also seen the reaction to spotted horses others described - just seems weird to them if they have never encountered it. My mare had issues with a very small white pony that came to the barn one day. Funny to see giant beast terrified of tiny pony :)[/QUOTE]

My 16.3 all testosterone, herd-“stallion,” rough-playing gelding lost his pea-sized brain over a tiny little white Shetland. He eventually got used to the idea. Until he saw the demonic little thing with a RIDER! :lol:

Woohoo for the scores! That’s impressive!