Muscle sore horse, Robaxin

[SolarFlare]

[QUOTE=SugarCubes;8283632]
Right. This is my question, what am I missing? Like I said, we’ve covered all the bases as far as what else could be contributing to this (several lameness exams, saddle fitter was out two weeks ago and added shims, now he’s happy with his saddle, regular chiropractic) and aren’t finding any answers. I’m wanting to know what else can cause all over body soreness that the Robaxin is masking. My vet commented how hard it is to give him shots in his hindquarters because he is so tightly muscled, I may look more into EPSM?[/QUOTE]

Not sure if you’ve had this looked at but sore hocks cause tight, sore hamstrings (and in turn can cause a sore back).

[SugarCubes]

[QUOTE=SolarFlare;8283636]
Not sure if you’ve had this looked at but sore hocks cause tight, sore hamstrings (and in turn can cause a sore back).[/QUOTE]

Yup, hocks were just injected in May…

[Pocket_Pony]

My horse was on Robaxin (methocarbamol) years ago and I didn’t remember that it helped him much. At the time he was getting regular chiro and acupunture and I think that vet suggested Robaxin because he had one rib that was always “out” and she thought maybe the Robaxin would help (I don’t remember that it did).

IIRC he got 14 x 750-mg pills once a day. 10 x 500-mg pills doesn’t sound like a lot to me.

I will tell you that I am currently taking methocarbamol myself for back pain. Turns out I have an old compression fracture at T12 and the muscles around it are in spasm most of the time. I’ve tried just about everything for relief and this is just about the only thing that helps me. I don’t feel weird or loopy on it, but I do take it before bed so how would I know?! :lol:

A couple other things to consider/try would be a PSSM/EPSM test (easy little muscle biopsy) or putting the horse on Quiessence which has helped a tight-muscled horse of mine in the past.

[SugarCubes]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8283660]
My horse was on Robaxin (methocarbamol) years ago and I didn’t remember that it helped him much. At the time he was getting regular chiro and acupunture and I think that vet suggested Robaxin because he had one rib that was always “out” and she thought maybe the Robaxin would help (I don’t remember that it did).

IIRC he got 14 x 750-mg pills once a day. 10 x 500-mg pills doesn’t sound like a lot to me.

I will tell you that I am currently taking methocarbamol myself for back pain. Turns out I have an old compression fracture at T12 and the muscles around it are in spasm most of the time. I’ve tried just about everything for relief and this is just about the only thing that helps me. I don’t feel weird or loopy on it, but I do take it before bed so how would I know?! :lol:

A couple other things to consider/try would be a PSSM/EPSM test (easy little muscle biopsy) or putting the horse on Quiessence which has helped a tight-muscled horse of mine in the past.[/QUOTE]

My trainer actually takes it for her back too! Agree that he is on a light dosage, which is why it’s so amazing that I’ve seen such drastic improvement. I’ve been reading more about EPSM/PSSM and he is a tightly muscled QH, so I feel like I may be onto something. Will definitely look into testing for that and Lyme, though it would be extremely rare for it to be lyme in my area. I’ll have to check out the Quiessence too, thanks for the suggestion

[LookmaNohands]

[QUOTE=SugarCubes;8283632]
Right. This is my question, what am I missing? Like I said, we’ve covered all the bases as far as what else could be contributing to this (several lameness exams, saddle fitter was out two weeks ago and added shims, now he’s happy with his saddle, regular chiropractic) and aren’t finding any answers. I’m wanting to know what else can cause all over body soreness that the Robaxin is masking. My vet commented how hard it is to give him shots in his hindquarters because he is so tightly muscled, I may look more into EPSM?[/QUOTE]

Maybe you need a new vet, if your vet isn’t already looking into EPSM after all this. Or more bloodwork?

How does he go under saddle? Nicely round and soft or high headed and dropped back? Maybe it is more of a training/posture issue.

[SugarCubes]

[QUOTE=LookmaNohands;8284148]
Maybe you need a new vet, if your vet isn’t already looking into EPSM after all this. Or more bloodwork?

How does he go under saddle? Nicely round and soft or high headed and dropped back? Maybe it is more of a training/posture issue.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree, and the more I keep reading about EPSM, the more probable it sounds. My trainer is fed up with this vet and we are getting a second opinion next week. Under saddle he is soft and round when he is not palpating sore. When he is sore, he starts off hollow, especially at the trot, but will try to get his butt underneath himself if I keep on him about it, but he definitely guards his back when he’s sore (obviously!). He is worse in the summer, in the winter he lives in his Back on Track sheet which makes a huge difference.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=jawa;8283559]
The multitude of reasons a horse can be sore:

heel pain
saddle fit
hock pain
fetlock pain
Lyme
EPSM
poor farrier work/hooves out of balance/needs a different style shoe
needs more frequent shoeing

And I’m sure I missed some or that my horse hasn’t suffered from one of the reasons I’ve listed (yet…knocks wood…I don’t need to experience anymore reasons).

Robaxin did NOTHING for my horse. He was on it for over 3 weeks with NO relief. Accupuncture made a huge improvement after the one treatment. (The vet wanted to do more treatments, I said thankyou, but I’d rather find the cause than continue to mask the symptoms at $$ a treatment.) Ace at .5-1ccs was enough to ease the pain and stiffness until I could tick off all of the ways my horse’s back was made sore.

When I bought my horse 2 years ago, he didn’t like ANY grooming, except with the softest brush. At first I thought it was just a thin skinned TB thing, but it was a all over body sore thing. Since I have ticked off the multitude of things that were making him sore, he enjoys a good grooming, even with a stiff brush.

For my horse, Lyme and saddle fit were the worst culprits for soreness. My saddle was a good fit, but not good enough for the prince in the pea! I think his issue with saddle fit is that he is a short coupled TB with long legs and a HUGE over stride and a nice rolling back when he walks. If the saddle impinges his back anywhere he can’t move freely and it starts a chain reaction of problems, with the end result being intense back pain and muscle spasms.[/QUOTE]

Acepromazine has no analgesic properties.

[Ambitious_Kate]

[QUOTE=SugarCubes;8283632]
Right. This is my question, what am I missing? Like I said, we’ve covered all the bases as far as what else could be contributing to this (several lameness exams, saddle fitter was out two weeks ago and added shims, now he’s happy with his saddle, regular chiropractic) and aren’t finding any answers. I’m wanting to know what else can cause all over body soreness that the Robaxin is masking. My vet commented how hard it is to give him shots in his hindquarters because he is so tightly muscled, I may look more into EPSM?[/QUOTE]

I presume you have looked at Lyme? Its primary symptom is all over body soreness/pain; muscle or joint. I would certainly make sure it has been ruled out.

[vxf111]

You can’t show on Robaxin except at a low dose but according to my vet you can keep a horse on it a looooooooooooooong time with no real ill effects. So if this works in the meantime while you get to the root cause, I wouldn’t stress too much.

[jawa]

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8284570]
Acepromazine has no analgesic properties.[/QUOTE]

No, it doesn’t. But it can have a positive effect on horses that have muscle soreness. It stops the spasms and increases blood flow.

https://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/articles/tying.htm

A mild case of tying up may be treated with a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory (i.e. Phenylbutazone) and rest for 3-5 days with a gradual increase in exercise. A decrease in training intensity and grain intake will usually be recommended. Sedatives such as Acepromazine which causes sedation and relaxation by depressing the central nervous system, may be given to decrease the anxiety and spasms after the horse ties up. In some chronic cases, Acepromazine may be used in a preventative effort prior to exercise, to help promote vasodilatation or opening of the outlying blood vessels. Veterinarians may give the horses immediate intravenous Thiamin or intramuscular Vitamin E and Selenium injections to aid return to health or monthly prophylactic injections to decrease potential onset of tying up episodes.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

My boy was having trouble with some lingering lower back pain and acupuncture helped him tremendously.

If your boy is grouchy about being groomed I would try an E/Se Mag supplement or maybe Quiessence can help. Being deficient in selenium and magnesium can make them muscle sore. My boy used to hate being groomed and the E/Se Mag supplement sure helps him and he loves it now.

[SugarCubes]

[QUOTE=BoyleHeightsKid;8285477]
My boy was having trouble with some lingering lower back pain and acupuncture helped him tremendously.

If your boy is grouchy about being groomed I would try an E/Se Mag supplement or maybe Quiessence can help. Being deficient in selenium and magnesium can make them muscle sore. My boy used to hate being groomed and the E/Se Mag supplement sure helps him and he loves it now.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Boyle! I did actually try the E/Se/Mag supplement from smartpak last year and kept him on it for about six months hoping to see a difference, but there was no change

[JB]

How much of the E/Se/Mg were you using? As in, IU/mg/gm?

Is the E in that d or dl?

I agree that the hard hind quarter muscles sounds very EPSM-like, and I’d either just start feeding him as such, or do the blood and hair test to see which, if either type, he has.

Have you ever tested his blood E/Se levels?

[BoyleHeightsKid]

I would have him tested for E/Se levels and see where that takes you. It could really be something as simple as that.

They are all different. My boys levels need to be at a very high level of normal… if not he starts to get grouchy again.

It would not hurt to switch him over to an EPSM friendly diet. It’s just better for them EPSM or not.

And the RVI your vet is talking about is Rubeola Virus Immunomodulator, it supposedly has some effect on myofacia inflammation.
http://ruralheritage.com/messageboard/virtualvet/2883.htm

[kande04]

@SugarCubes

Yup, hocks were just injected in May…

Injecting joints may or may not improve things, depending on why the horse needs them injected and whether the substance injected cures the problem.

[vxf111]

@kande04

Injecting joints may or may not improve things, depending on why the horse needs them injected and whether the substance injected cures the problem.

Just FYI you replied to a very old thread. Likely the horse with issues in 2015 has a different set of issues now in 2019.

[kande04]

@Ambitious Kate

I presume you have looked at Lyme? Its primary symptom is all over body soreness/pain; muscle or joint. I would certainly make sure it has been ruled out.

Lyme, or any of the other tick borne diseases. My neighbor’s mini was treated for Anaplasmosis last year, and now this spring he has what looks like overall body soreness again. I’d read somewhere that Lyme can become chronic, but the other tick borne diseases don’t, so maybe he has Lyme or one of the others this time around?

[Haylter]

I may have missed it, but you did not mention that his back has been Xrayed…has it? as others have said the Meth is treating a symptom of ??Cause?? Low Vit E selenium and magnesium as well as tick borne illness come to my mind as well…as does being foot sore and basically compensating with his back/hind end. might be worth shelling out the money for images, images, images to try and see what is wrong.

[joiedevie99]

This thread is from 2015. I doubt OP needs advice on this now.

[CBurkott]

My mare, when I first got her, seemed sore in the SI region. So with chiro, she started robaxin. We worked long and low, lots of hacking, tack walking, etc. Once it seemed markedly improved, we began to wean her off…she began to evade work, buck, get pissy. So we injected stifles because she was off there during a flexion. Still no improvement. Finally, the chiro said, lets test for Lyme and EPM. Bingo, it was Lyme. I’m in SC but she came off the track in PA and let down there. Vets here never suspected. I kick myself for not asking for that sooner. She’s just on her sixth week of doxycycline.