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Musical Freestyle Requirements upped--let's try to rescind them

Dressage
#163

The certainly make a large profit from GMO and membership activities. https://www.usdf.org/docs/about/about-usdf/financials/19%2020ProposedBudget10%2009%2018.pdf

#164

Seems the USDF budget is about $2.5 million of which 76% comes from membership fees.

The PM memberships fees make up 58% of that total.

If the PM members were to withhold renewing for one year, that would send a message.

I don’t know what the GMO’s could do to withhold their fees.
. [TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0, width: 513”]
[TR]
[TD]Revenue[/TD]
[TD]Apr’19-Mar’20[/TD]
[TD]Percent[/TD]
[TD]Cum. %[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Group Member Dues[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]444,155[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]17.8%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]17.8%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Participating Membership[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]1,445,604[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]58.1%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]75.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Business Membership[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]56,240[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]2.3%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]78.2%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Education Membership[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]3,000[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]0.1%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]78.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Late GMO Penalty[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]300[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]0.0%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]78.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Affidavit[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]450[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]0.0%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]78.3%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Horse Registration Fees[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]440,000[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]17.7%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]96.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]HID: Name Change/Transfers[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]2,820[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]0.1%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]96.1%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lifetime: Name Change/Transfers[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]48,320[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]1.9%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]98.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Non Member Rider Fee[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]45,000[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]1.8%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]99.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Duplicates[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]100[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]0.0%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]99.9%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lease Agreements[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]2,870[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]0.1%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]100.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ruth Arvanette Investment Fund[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]700[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]0.0%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]100.0%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]2,489,559[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”]100.0%[/TD]
[TD=“align: right”] [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

#165

Wow. Thank you for that.

1 Like
#166

https://www.usdf.org/docs/announcements/USDFFreestyleRuleStmt012519.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3H_CdGOBQCGhDCyEDaCplMFzRYQ84w4wE7Q2PF992PPnyB2Otwi-knn_4

#167

I have asked my regional director if there is any plan to discuss this at the regional meeting.

#168

https://www.usdf.org/docs/announceme
nyB2Otwi-knn_
Thank you for this, Lorilu.

I had to get Cynthia Collins to explain this. So, basically they passed the 63% as an extraordinary rule change. Now, this letter is saying that this 63% is a hardship, so trying to pass an extraordinary rule change to rescind it.

Cynthia: The USDF freestyle, judges committee, and BOG are the ones who messed this up in 2017. Now they’ve passed the responsibility off to the USEF DSC.
I don’t know if they’ll change it or not. The USDF letter looks good but we’ll see.
I suggest we keep writing the USEF DSC.

So, I suggest anyone who cares, and this is hitting me in the worst way this year, do as she suggests and keep writing them.

1 Like
#169

The USEF DSC = THE USDF.

The key members of the DSC have leadership positions in the USDF
 and all DSC members are Members of the USDF.
. [TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0, width: 500”]
[TR]
[TD]USEF Dressage Sport Committee[/TD]
[TD]USDF Role[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]KATHLEEN CONNELLY - Co-Chair[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LISA GORRETTA - Co-Chair[/TD]
[TD]USDF President & Member Reg. Championship Comm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GARDY BLOEMERS - Member[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LISELOTTE FORE - Member[/TD]
[TD]Chair USDF Instructor-Trainer Comm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]JANET FOY - Member[/TD]
[TD]Member L-Program, Judges Comm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ELIZABETH JULIANO - Member[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]HEATHER PETERSEN - Member[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GARY ROCKWELL - Member[/TD]
[TD]Chair USDF Judges Comm.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LISA WILCOX - Member[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ELISABETH WILLIAMS- Member[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]KATHERINE BATESON CHANDLER - Elected Athlete[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CHRISTOPHER HICKEY - Elected Athlete[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]PIERRE ST JACQUES - Elected Athlete[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CHARLOTTE BREDAHL - NV Advisor[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ALLISON BROCK - NV Advisor[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DEBBIE MC DONALD - NV Advisor[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]CHRISTINE TRAURIG - NV Advisor[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GEORGE WILLIAMS - NV Advisor[/TD]
[TD]Former USDF President[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
.

https://www.usef.org/about-us/councils-committees/713
https://www.usdf.org/about/about-usd
ilscommittees/

1 Like
#170

Well, seeing as how several of these have (inappropriately, in my opinion) have argued on Facebook with members of the community who dared to express a voice


2 Likes
#171

Where?

#172

Yep. On Dolly Hannon’s page (not her.) I guess the worst of it was removed. But, that is where the mantra of “everyone wants it” and “it’s for the good of the horse” seemed to be most apparent to me. As mentioned before, Janet Foy seems to be the front of it. Ironically, she is a judge at the west coast dressage festival I was watching yesterday. I saw a whole bunch of GP rides with many, many, many major problems, including basically not doing movements. The scores were 57/58%! The problem is not the freestyles. It’s the judging of the regular tests.

5 Likes
#173

There’s a lot of movements in the GP, including transitions in and out, that are scored. It’s mathematically entirely possible to have problems in some movements at the level and get a 58%. I don’t think that is evidence, on its face, that there is a problem with the judging.

2 Likes
#174

Janet Foy is not judging at the west coast dressage festival.

https://westcoastdressagefestival.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/2019WCDF1-1.pdf

Scores of 57/58% are not good scores.

2 Likes
#175

Janet Foy is here in Florida. She taught a clinic in Myakka CIty today.

Also wanted to note that the USEF DSC has MANY more members than the few who are also involved in leadership at USDF. It is (IMO) not correct to say they are “the same”.

2 Likes
#176

Take a look at Post 169 with the name of the entire DSC.

You have USDF leadership including the current and former president of the USDF as member as USEF DSC members. This group makes up 30% (5 of the 18) members.

The other members of DSC are USDF members and high profile competition riders who probably do not want to be politically incorrect
and will go with the flow.
. [TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 0, width: 500”]
[TR]
[TD]LISA GORRETTA - Co-Chair USEF DSC[/TD]
[TD]USDF President & Reg. Championship Comm[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LISELOTTE FORE - Member USEF DSC[/TD]
[TD]Chair USDF Instructor-Trainer Commitee[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]JANET FOY - Member USEF DSC[/TD]
[TD]Member USDF L-Program, Judges Committee[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GARY ROCKWELL - Member USEF DSC[/TD]
[TD]Chair USDF Judges Committee .[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GEORGE WILLIAMS - NV Advisor USEF DSC[/TD]
[TD]Former USDF President[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

#177

I ride GP, I know the movements, I know how to judge. I am referring to, for example, a horse who basically cantered through the first piaffe/passage line and did none, and no transitions, did no one tempis, and had several other meltdowns with no movements done. No way should that get a 50%.

2 Likes
#178

OK. Maybe I got it wrong. It was the one Axel was narrating, and he said she was judging. Maybe he also got the name wrong.

57/58% are almost qualifying scores. They are not bad scores. They are decent scores for an OK ride with an error or two, or a horse that is doing it, but not super talented. They are insanely high scores for many movements not done, or not done correctly. Just like the previous famous bad ride, no way should that many issues get close to a qualifying score.

So, again, the point is, that the issue is not freestyles need higher scores and the judges to keep riders from riding them because they are so much harder than the regular tests. The point is that judges need to judge correctly and this won’t be an issue. You can give Isabel the 9 or 10 on the piaffe, but you’d also better give her the 3 or 4 on the extended trot with the dropped back, head pulled back into the neck, and the hind legs out behind.

3 Likes
#179

Thank you, again. I didn’t see anywhere where you said the members were “the same.” It would sure be nice if people read. However you want to phrase it, there are few people who seem out of touch making these decisions. We can hope this letter might indicate they are willing to actually take action to fix this error and not continue to alienate the base.

#180

So where are you in the process of becoming an FEI judge since you can do it so much better than they can?

2 Likes
#181

Why the snark?

We can all read the descriptors assigned to the numbers. The same way we don’t need to be an NFL Ref to identify a bad call in football, we don’t need to be FEI dressage judges to comment on the judging.

I have not watched these rides, but if they were under FEI rules, a score 50% is DEFINED as “Sufficient” in the rule book.

If the rides were as poor as GV states, the judges had a selection of five other scores to assign.

4 - Insufficient
3 - Fairly Bad
2 - Bad
1 - Very Bad
0 - Not executed

None of these scores are being used very frequently
and THIS IS the problem.

If the judges think the MFS rides that are showing are that bad, then why are these people getting in front of them?

Obviously these people’s riding doesn’t mysterious deteriorate in a MFS ride. The DelMar ride shows that. If the judges gave appropriately low marks in the regular tests, then riders would be staying away from the MFS.

7 Likes
#182

That wasn’t my point. My point was that the judging is an opinion issued by a licensed official at a licensed competition, not someone who “knows how to judge” and is typing away on her keyboard about it while watching a livestream. She claims to be a GP rider so she should be eligible to put her money where her mouth is and improve the judging by becoming a judge.

A GP rider should know that the % score is not about the overall impression of the ride but instead he sum of the individual + collectives. Shannon Peters got a score in the low 50s in the GP yesterday with a couple 4s, a 3, and even a 1 (those scores that are never used, according to you). She also got a bunch of 7s. That is how the math works and it has nothing to do with the ride “overall.” Yep, you can get a qualifying score and still get a 3 on the changes. If you don’t like that, then make the qualifying score at least a 6 on every movement and see how that works out for you.

4 Likes

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