My bad loader has me at my wits end...

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=britannia;7719648]
This is what I would do - I would back the trailer up to the doors of the barn. Everyday that horse would get on the trailer. Breakfast and dinner. He would stall in the trailer during the day - go for a ride every day.

Let him self load. I have chased horses onto the trailer with it backed into the door as well.

My sympathies - nothing worse than a bad loader. All ours are taught to treat the trailer as a stall. At shows they go off and on several times, eat, drink and even sleep on the trailer.[/QUOTE]

^^^^^^^ My babies are taught this from a young age. Worked perfectly when my 4 month old got hurt, she loaded and went like a champ.

I have turned many “bad” loaders around with the “if you want to eat grain, it’s in the trailer”. It is not a fight. If they don’t load, no grain. It isn’t going to kill them, they can have hay and water. But yes, they all eventually load.

[Plainandtall]

There have been some interesting suggestion here- I wonder about the ramp falling and it makes me worry that either there is something physical that makes the ramp a difficulty and he knows it- or falling before has caused a mental block.

I would be curious to see how this horse would negotiate just a ramp (like a trail obstacle) without the trailer. And if practicing just the ramp part, in hand- and then under saddle if it proves doable and safe- would help increase his confidence and coordination.

[Graymaresrule]

Then there’s this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ueprRcH5B4

[kcmel]

If he falls on the ramp every time of course he isn’t going to load! If you got whacked in the head every time you got in your car I bet you wouldn’t want to get in your car! You need to figure out why he is falling before you can work on the loading. I would have a vet do a neurological exam, and then try him on some kind of non-trailer ramp like P&T suggested.

[whitney159]

I had a mare that was a terrible loader, she is also a pretty reactive mare, so a challenge all around. My husband was convinced she was hopeless and I would never train her to load. I got a booklet and video on trailer training put out by a John Lyons disciple, it’s a 4 day training plan. On day one you don’t even go near a trailer.
It requires a lead rope and a dressage whip. First you teach the horse that when you ask them to move forward, they are to go, tap on the hip with the dressage whip to reinforce this idea. Get the horse MOVING forward when prompted. Then you move on to having them walk a figure 8 in front of you out on the end of the lead rope. All around, you are asking the horse to move away from any pressure in whatever direction you ask them to move with very little pressure. You ask they go (and I"ve been to a clinic with Karen and David O’Connor and THEY teach this with theirs on the ground).
After this is established, you introduce the trailer. Have them put one foot on, wait for one count, then ask them to back off. Do this again, one hundred times, just…one…foot. Once you’ve done that, ask them to put two feet on, wait a beat, then back off…do this one hundred times. Then ask for three feet, then back off, a hundred times. Then finally four feet, then back off, one hundred times. By the time I worked up to four feet, my mare was like “seriously already, I get it” but we kept up. —oh and no you don’t lead the horse onto the trailer, you stop at the back door and let the horse walk himself on— If the horse won’t even approach the trailer, or starts to balk at the lesson, back to walking the figure 8 again. At no time do you escalate or get upset, it’s simple, I ask, you move, that’s that.
After I did this, she would walk right up. Then life got in the way and she didn’t have a chance to trailer for a year or more. One day suddenly I had to load her, in spite of my lack of faith, after less than two minutes of reminding her of the first part of the lesson (I ask you to move forward and you go), she walked right on the trailer. Husband’s jaw had to be picked up off the ground from the shock.
I’m not a huge John Lyon’s fan, but even I had to admit, apparently he’s got some good ideas. One neat point the guy talks about is that you aren’t just teaching loading, you are also teaching unloading at the same time, so we no longer have a panicky mare coming oft the trailer either.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

Lots of good advice here. I’ve had 2 nightmare loaders. The first was a mare who had been in a wreck and dragged. We parked the trailer in her paddock and fed her in it. It took about 2 years before she willingly loaded all the time, but that, and lots of patient hauling, let her see we weren’t the bad guys.

The other was my gelding Fox. He retired because he stopped loading. I even bought a new WB-sized trailer. No cigar. And he’s only 15.1 hands!

First, take a ride in the trailer yourself. A long ride, at least 5-10 miles, at all speeds, to get a feel for how it rides, sounds, and handles. Maybe there’s something you’re missing.

Second, make sure it’s tall enough and that it’s very light and bright inside, so he can see.

Third, he’s learned that loading is a Battle Royale. It will take a lot of time and patience to get him over that mentality.

[MariaV]

I am going to try sending him into the two horse straight load on saturday, doing sending exercises first then sending him into the trailer without me in the box, unfortunately that one also has a ramp. These are the only two trailers I have to work with and they are the only kind of trailer he would be traveling in for the distant future anyway so I may as well teach him to go in the kind of trailer he will travel in. Out of 26 horses in the barn he is the only one that doesn’t jump in the head to head. It’s very inviting and comfortable for them to ride in. It’s also very tall and well lit. We wouldn’t normally take him anywhere in the two horse because its not quite large enough for him but I figure that would be the best way to send him into the trailer without risking him falling out the other side.

For a horse that can confidently jump 3’6" and passes all neuro tests (walking with head raised, crossing feet in the aisle, pulling tail while in motion, he gets up and down in the stall with no issue) he’s just not that coordinated unfortunately. But he isn’t afraid of the ramp and often when he falls down he gets up and steps back onto it without prompting. He’s not an alarmist by any stretch of the imagination but I think that if he was more fearful at least he would be moving and then I could use that to my advantage. He just stands there like a stubborn mule and politely declines to come in.

This is all I’ve been able to think about for three days. This is honestly the hardest problem I’ve ever dealt with and I’ve been working as a professional with rank babies and troubled horses for close to ten years. This is not my first tough loader but this is definitely the worst and he is also the horse I’ve loved more than any other in my career… I just wish his incredibly talented butt would go to the horse show like a normal horse. =[

[Chaila]

I feel your pain. My horse would do most things cheerfully except load. But then I had a major attitude adjustment and some training and I fixed the problem. I used to be so stressed about it!

First, I had an expert come work with me on loading. I really learned how to drive him into the trailer. But I was still really stressed about it. It was always his choice, not mine and fortunately he’s a really good Doobie and usually we got where we wanted to go.

Second, I watched Greg Eleil load a really bitchy mare onto a trailer and it was freaking life altering. Forget all this crap about ropes and whips and extra people. Greg had a rope halter and a 12 foot solid lead rope and an absolutely confident, unflappable attitude. Now, keep in mind that Greg can tie a knot in a rope by flipping it in a circle so he has excellent control over the rope. (which is why I use a dressage whip to perform the same function). Greg stood behind the trailer and swung the rope at the mare’s flank. Tap, tap, tap. Not hard enough to hurt her, just hard enough to piss her off. She reared, she turned. He pretty much stood still and immediately took the pressure off the second she even contemplated getting on the trailer. Within ten minutes that mare was self loading. Greg’s demeanor never changed. Loading a horse = Waiting for a bus mentally.

The third attitude adjustment happened when I was taking my kids to the dentist. A three year old in the next cubicle was having a tooth pulled and he was HYSTERICAL. After he left, I asked the head dentist if they ever used laughing gas. He said, no because you don’t know how all kids are going to respond and often you end up with a drunken hysterical kid. He said, “We just keep going. We know we’re not hurting them.”

A lightbulb went off in my head with regards to my trailering issues. “Keep going. I’m not hurting him.” When my horse gets balky about loading, tap, tap, tap, with the whip. If he doesn’t move forward (if he’s backing up) I get firmer with it. He must go forward when the whip taps him on the back.

Don’t do up the butt bar until you know he’s made a choice and is standing quietly. Even if you have to load twenty times.

Forget the treats and the bribes and treat this like any other riding exercise. You wouldn’t bribe your horse to get him to jump a ditch or a spooky looking fence. You’d use your aids and praise him to all get out when he does the right thing.

I do give my horse treats once he’s loaded on the trailer so he knows it’s a happy place to be, but they are not linked to proper loading.

My proudest moment came at a show last month when I applied these techniques to a cranky loader at a show for a friend and got her mare on the trailer on the first try.

[SmartAlex]

If the ramp is truly the problem… can you get someone to reinforce a shipping pallet with a sheet of plywood?

My horse loves to learn tricks. If he sees an object in the arena he immediately sees it as a treat getting opportunity. I have a pallet and he will step up and down off that thing all day for a bag of peanuts. It gets them used to 1. stepping onto something on command and 2. the hollow sound of the ramp.

I can load my horse any time I want… the claustrophobic havoc that ensues after I close the doors is a whole nuther problem.

[enjoytheride]

I would forgo all advice written here and hire someone to teach him to load. Advice is great but timing is a HUGE part of it and you really need an expert in loading to get him on the trailer. Ask around, there are a bunch of Natural Horsemanship type people that travel and specialize in low pressure but effective trailer loading and ground work. Have a pro get him on the trailer for several sessions and show you exactly what he’s doing to make it happen.

[Graymaresrule]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;7720990]
I would forgo all advice written here and hire someone to teach him to load. Advice is great but timing is a HUGE part of it and you really need an expert in loading to get him on the trailer. Ask around, there are a bunch of Natural Horsemanship type people that travel and specialize in low pressure but effective trailer loading and ground work. Have a pro get him on the trailer for several sessions and show you exactly what he’s doing to make it happen.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes it is also good to get someone who is not emotionally involved

[Highflyer]

I think that paying someone is probably the way to go. That said, one thing that sometimes works with the young stubborn ones (but is somewhat risky for the handler) is picking up one foot at a time and putting it down a few inches further up and slowly “walking” him up/ in that way. Sometimes that helps them make the connection. But if he is really falling, that could be dangerous.

[Blugal]

I’m sorry but my advice is that YOU should not be the one teaching this horse any more. It’s been 4.5 years and you admit, he is not getting it. Falling on the ramp repeatedly is doing nothing for his confidence in you or in loading. You should find someone who specializes in training horses (whether that be a colt starter or someone who deals with problem horses, it’s up to you) that really, really understands how horses learn. The Pat Parelli video linked above shows someone who understands when to put pressure on and when to release it.

I’m not telling you this to be mean - but recognize your limitations. I am a very experienced horse person who’s dealt with many difficult loaders. However a couple weeks ago I had a semi-wild horse that I couldn’t get to UN-load. He simply wouldn’t get off. After 2 hours I gave up and left him on the trailer (a stock) overnight with food & water. I turned him over to a professional horse person. It still took them two one-hour sessions before he unloaded - and the work I’d done was mostly in the right vein - but they just had that extra sense of when to push and when to wait, combined with the small amount of space to work the horse (a stock trailer isn’t much room to tell them to back up or move their feet or anything else!), they accomplished backing up and moving the feet etc.

And if no one else has mentioned it, it’s important that loading and unloading isn’t a one-move process. Get them moving their feet and bodies in response to your cues - so they are comfortable going 2 steps forward, one back, whoa, back or forward. Not just a rush forward or backward all the way.

[Meadow36]

I bet you could get him to hop right into an open stock trailer with no ramp. They are cheap to purchase (usually can find used for less then $5K). You could look into renting or borrowing one first to see how it goes. PM me, if you live nearby you’re welcome to borrow mine for practicing.

I have this one: http://www.exiss.com/gooseneck_livestock-trailer/modelstc20/. It has a full swing center gate so once loaded each horse has their own box stall. Great for big horses. There is absolutely no horse in the world that I can’t get to load on this trailer (and I’ve had some wild unbroke horses).

If the horse is broke I use the lunging style method as some others have explained. What I do - just lunge in front of the open trailer door, be careful they don’t slam into it (had that happen once), change directions often, lots of transitions, just basic “hey listen to me” type lunging. Having a surcingle on makes some horses pay attention more (not sure why that is). Once they are good and relaxed, let them stop/rest by the door and look in. Then work them some more. Then stop/rest by the opening again. Rinse, repeat. Eventually when they have that “quiet look” point them inside and ask them to go in. If they resist - immediately back to work. Trot/canter/trot/canter - change directions, repeat. After a few minutes - rest by the open door. Then ask horse to go in (YOU stay outside! Look for videos on how to “send” a horse on a line to one place or another). Shockingly, it does not take very long; even the worst loaders want the comfort of standing inside. Oh, and i have shavings and fresh hay inside - laying on the ground, easy for them to get the reward, not in a net (this is for practice purposes, when actually trailering it’s in a net). With a stock trailer you can make it look like a big open stall.

I am NOT a big proponent of NH methods - but with trailer loading, it truly works. Once you are successfully loading onto a stock, you may have luck transferring over to other types of trailers. But for me, the stock is the easiest/most inviting and generally safest way to go, especially when teaching.

Good luck, I hope it all works out. I feel your pain. I’ve been there many times myself.

[MariaV]

[QUOTE=Blugal;7721347]
I’m sorry but my advice is that YOU should not be the one teaching this horse any more. It’s been 4.5 years and you admit, he is not getting it. Falling on the ramp repeatedly is doing nothing for his confidence in you or in loading. You should find someone who specializes in training horses (whether that be a colt starter or someone who deals with problem horses, it’s up to you) that really, really understands how horses learn. The Pat Parelli video linked above shows someone who understands when to put pressure on and when to release it.

I’m not telling you this to be mean - but recognize your limitations. [/QUOTE]

I don’t want to be rude to anyone offering advice right now because I’ve been fairly desperate over this whole process. But you don’t know me and you’ve never seen me work with this horse. If I allowed other people to make the decisions about his life my potential 4’ horse that has been ridden by children would have been put down for his behavioral issues two years ago. I have fixed everything that had been ruined in his young life, he is now a perfect finished horse that just needs to learn how to trailer.

This isn’t about limitations, there are no such thing when you own a horse like this, you change the program and you change it again and you change it again until it works. I don’t blame him, I don’t get mad at him, I try to listen to him. I’m waiting for him to tell me what the problem is so we can fix it like all the other problems that came before it.

I’m not here for someone to tell me I don’t know how to read my horse. If I was making him anxious about the trailer or creating more of an issue I wouldn’t continue on the same path I’m on. The whole story you have is what’s written down on a webpage on the internet, I find it inappropriate that you would make an assumption about someones training methods without ever having met them or the horse.

Granted I’m extremely frustrated by this problem that hasn’t been resolved yet but I am equipped to handle it and I will continue to change the program until it is resolved. I loaded him perfectly on saturday, sunday was a whole new beast. It’s in there, I just need to coax it out of him.

[mickeydoodle]

Well gosh! Why did you ask for advice “at your wits end” if you don’t want it and are equipped to handle this and all problems?

[2DogsFarm]

Now children, don’t make me turn this forum around! :mad:

OP:
I understand your frustration - having lived there myself for years.
Mostly what you need is Patience. Horses key in so well to what we project.
Saturday you may have been cool as a cucumber, Sunday perhaps the teeniest sense of frustration crept in & was sensed by your problem loader.

PM me if you’d like the whole (long) ugly story of my Tale of Loading Woes.
My problem horse loaded in all sorts of trailers for years.
Heck!
I used to use him to get the balkers loaded!
“See? Vern got into the Gaping Black Hole of Death, now you can too!”
Then I got my own brand new trailer…
And the “fun” ensued.

mickeyd:
Now hush!
OP just got riled by blugal’s post.
Anyone here not been snarked at, or at least thought snark was intended?
So hard to read intonation in a BB post.

[oliverreed]

What Chaila said. My horse was a horrible loader until my current BO worked with him. Now all we have to do is have someone walk behind him with a lunge whip and he hops right on. He still hates it, when we unload he is a massive scared sweatball, but he does get right on the trailer. Good luck, OP!

[BEARCAT]

[QUOTE=carolprudm;7721156]
Sometimes it is also good to get someone who is not emotionally involved[/QUOTE]

Bingo.

[ChocoMare]

I’m going to ditto the Lunge Line down the inside of the Trailer method since you have a ramp.

It’s how someone told me to train my “Nope, ain’t gonna get on that thing” mare.

I put on a leather halter, connect the lunge line and run it inside the trailer, then out the left side escape door and back down to where you are on the left side of the ramp. Hold a dressage whip by the skinny end.

Apply a bit of tension of on the lunge line and gently, but persistently, tap the point of the hip. No emotion from you. No angst. No hurry. Just tap tap tap tap. At the TINIEST hint of forward, even a knee bend or a head drop, release the tension and stop tapping.

Let them stand a minute and relax. Licking/chewing behavior is encouraging. Then repeat as loooooooooooong as necessary. There is no hurry. No pressure. You have allll day to load him.

The first day, it took me 35 minutes to get her on the trailer. I didn’t do up the butt bar. She just got to stand there, peek out the sides, eat the one treat in the manger bag. Then I tugged her tail and said Back.

Day Two was 15 minutes.
Day Three was 5 minutes.
Self loading Day Four and thru today.

For my new mare, who hadn’t seen a trailer in 8 years (she’s 10) and hadn’t been touched in two years, I did the same thing. No hurry. We had allll day. Tension, tap tap tap. Took 30 minutes and she quietly loaded and hauled home. The lessons were repeated daily, both sides of the trailer and she 100% self loads, both sides.

You need days with no plan, no witnesses, no angst. Just you, the horse, the trailer, whip & lunge line. You CAN do it.