Pitt bulls in GA are trained to kill wild hogs. They are trained by people who throw cats and other breeds of dogs into the pens for the pitt bulls to kill
The ones in my area are not trained like that as hog dogs. Some of the owners are questionable but still do not practice like this.
As someone who used to show American Pit Bull Terriers and bred one litter and owns 2 full blooded ones, I will say this: it is not always just the owner’s fault. There are bad dogs within the breed. I put two down from my one litter due to aggression. Healthy puppies but they were not right in the head. The rest of the litter was just fine. Dam and sire were fine as well. Sometimes, there really are bad dogs - regardless of breed.
I lost my pit mix (mom was full blooded) female back in March to cancer but in the 12 years of her life she never bit a person and always lived in a changing pack. She changed people’s opinion on the breed. She was amazing in so many ways and to think that some people would have destroyed her based on her looks is devastating.
Yes, there are bad dogs in every breed. No, I don’t think destroying the breed will solve the problem of those bad dogs. You can be a good owner with a bad dog and become a bad owner because you chose to ignore your dog’s increasing aggression till something happened. (I am NOT aiming this at anyone in this thread!) You can be a bad owner with a good dog who thinks they are a good owner. You can be a good owner with a good dog. You can be a good owner with a bad dog who does everything right and there is never a problem.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8887948]
The vet techs, kennel workers, shelter volunteers that all insist the pits are fine to deal with are purposely ignoring the fact that these dogs are incredibly DOG aggressive and pose a massive threat to everyone else’s pets in the neighborhood."
I worked in a large shelter and did behavior evaluations. We did euth a lot of dog aggressive dogs. We refused to adopt them out to the public. We did Evaluations on every dog that was ready for adoptions. More pit types passed than a few other breeds, Huskies, JRT, GSD, Spitz breeds and doodles ( golden and lab). Human aggression was worst with the above breeds plus Chihuahuas.
I admit there are to many pit type dogs out there. Over breeding and in the wrong hands. What we found, and it’s been backed up by pit rescues and other pit bull advocates, is now that the so called breeders are breeding for color the blue pits, or bred from predominantly blue lines, seem to be more aggressive. All that comes down to is a bunch of back yard breeders who just want the dollars. We need to stop them, we need fewer pits bred, I agree. I don’t know what the answer is, but I do not believe in BSL as there are plenty of good pit type dogs and owners out here.
My pittie is old and arthritic, and can be snarky with other dogs, but I take great care to keep her and others safe. She isn’t dog aggressive, just likes to stay away from other dogs but if they get in her face she snarks and moves away. I know her limitations and am responsible to keep her safe. I can guarantee the public and other dogs are safe when she’s around.
[QUOTE=Sswor;8888114]
You immediately contradicted yourself in two, back to back sentences. Dog fighting dogs are killers yet here we have a “rescue” devoted to saving them. Pardon, but that is madness.[/QUOTE]
More than one rescue have stepped up to help confiscated ex fighters. It started with the Vick dogs. Bad Rap and Best friends are best known. Out of the 51 dogs from Vick only one was aggressive and had to be put down, one or two were in bad shape and PTS. Some went to smaller groups, most ended up with Bad Rap or Best Friends, and are living the pet life. The majority live with other dogs, kids and cats. A few are therapy dogs, Ray Ray was a service dog, Johnny Justice helped kids with reading, Uba agility,some like Oscar are perfect pets living in the safety of their homes but mentally scarred with no aggression issues, just very shy, they went on to be regular pets. Not one of the Vick dogs, or others from fighting busts have caused problems. They are aging out now and passing away. They fought because they had to.
[QUOTE=Nootka;8888276]
The ones in my area are not trained like that as hog dogs. Some of the owners are questionable but still do not practice like this.[/QUOTE]
I’ve met a few hog dogs, in Germany where there is pretty strict education and licensing…really, we should be so fortunate in North America. I’d happily accept German style restrictions on animal ownership, I’d have no trouble meeting the requirements. Lots of idiots would, but I don’t don’t want those people to have dogs anyway. The hog dogs I met were, unequivocally, the worst “pet” candidates I’ve ever met. They were challenging for the responsible, avid hunting owners to manage in their suburban area. If people are honestly trying to defend the practice of “rescuing” and adopting hog dogs, I seriously question their judgement. Rehab cases are no joke. Very, very few pet owners are truly able to deal with that.
[QUOTE=Logical;8888352]
As someone who used to show American Pit Bull Terriers and bred one litter and owns 2 full blooded ones, I will say this: it is not always just the owner’s fault. There are bad dogs within the breed. I put two down from my one litter due to aggression. Healthy puppies but they were not right in the head. The rest of the litter was just fine. Dam and sire were fine as well. Sometimes, there really are bad dogs - regardless of breed.
I lost my pit mix (mom was full blooded) female back in March to cancer but in the 12 years of her life she never bit a person and always lived in a changing pack. She changed people’s opinion on the breed. She was amazing in so many ways and to think that some people would have destroyed her based on her looks is devastating.
Yes, there are bad dogs in every breed. No, I don’t think destroying the breed will solve the problem of those bad dogs. You can be a good owner with a bad dog and become a bad owner because you chose to ignore your dog’s increasing aggression till something happened. (I am NOT aiming this at anyone in this thread!) You can be a bad owner with a good dog who thinks they are a good owner. You can be a good owner with a good dog. You can be a good owner with a bad dog who does everything right and there is never a problem.[/QUOTE]
So you used to show American Pit Bull Terriers? And here we have so many pit bull advocates stating there is no such thing as a Pit Bull…so which is it? Are they or are they not an actual breed? I’m confused about this…
[QUOTE=scierra;8888443]
More than one rescue have stepped up to help confiscated ex fighters. It started with the Vick dogs. Bad Rap and Best friends are best known. Out of the 51 dogs from Vick only one was aggressive and had to be put down, one or two were in bad shape and PTS. Some went to smaller groups, most ended up with Bad Rap or Best Friends, and are living the pet life. The majority live with other dogs, kids and cats. A few are therapy dogs, Ray Ray was a service dog, Johnny Justice helped kids with reading, Uba agility,some like Oscar are perfect pets living in the safety of their homes but mentally scarred with no aggression issues, just very shy, they went on to be regular pets. Not one of the Vick dogs, or others from fighting busts have caused problems. They are aging out now and passing away. They fought because they had to.[/QUOTE]
Frankly, I think that was the worst message ever, to send regarding pitbulls.
Attacks from Shelter Dogs are on the rise and the only thing that is going to solve it will be law suits that Win and require payment.
Google 2016 Shelter Pitbull Attacks. Not in the mood to defend what anyone and everyone can see come across headlines.
Your ignorance and hatred is killing good dogs. The Vick dogs from the worst situation and showed what good dogs they are. I suggest you watch The Champions on Netflix.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/10/michael-vick-dogs-vicktory_n_5119150.html
Clearly, these dogs are NOT inherently vicious. They are therapy dogs, best friends, CGC and so much more.
I have had the pleasure of working with these days at shelters and vet clinics. Maybe if you had actually read other people’s post and consider, but instead you are spreading more ignorance and more hate. It is incredibly sad.
Would you really condemn all of these beautiful lives because of their breed?
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/snowthepaint/1654184_10203217071217139_1629812560_n_zpsb58ijico.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/snowthepaint/10299585_10203777895437394_4935167588024565558_n_zpswpguawfa.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/snowthepaint/1958170_10203777894837379_2326809043728891854_n_zpsqtjqq2du.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/snowthepaint/10313159_10203777900037509_4380609891592528896_n_zpstynw3th3.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/snowthepaint/539557_4551247988797_745773875_n_zpsgb1dmepw.jpg
Ella and Xander
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/snowthepaint/1544497_10204608479521477_7015205886996441728_n_zpsprjcxyqo.jpg
Bruce and Jennny
Of course it’s the breed. They are very popular around here and the breeders absolutely breed for bite strength and size and a huge percentage of the dogs they sell are subsequently euthanized for aggression. I’ve posted before about my friends co-worker who breeds them for money and typically euthanizes al her males by age 3 or 4 because of aggression. When puppies sell for over $1000 people don’t give a rip. Ask any vet or animal control officer and they’ll tell you that the dogs being bred and sold are often inherently aggressive.
Now do I know nice pit bulls? Yes absolutely. But let’s not pretend the majority of breeders care one bit about temperament. They are breeding for a market that wants a scary looking dog and for whatever reason that seems to be tied to aggression. They’re not breeding it out.
As for other breeds, yes lots of them bite too. I don’t think dogs like malamutes, border collies or German shepherds have much business being pets to be honest. They are working dogs and most people can’t handle them properly either. Malamutes and Akitas are every bit as aggressive as they are advertised to be (I own a spitz breed). But at least they’re not typically being bred by someone who plans to sell them on craigslist, advertising them as being by Crusher and out of Mothra which is the way 99% of pitbulls around here are conceived. At this point it is absolutely about this breed.
[QUOTE=skyon;8888589]
Frankly, I think that was the worst message ever, to send regarding pitbulls.
Attacks from Shelter Dogs are on the rise and the only thing that is going to solve it will be law suits that Win and require payment.
Google 2016 Shelter Pitbull Attacks. Not in the mood to defend what anyone and everyone can see come across headlines.[/QUOTE]
How on god’s green earth is it a bad message to take dogs from about as horrible of a situation they can be in, help them, and then show that they can be rehabbed and go on to be good canine citizens??? I honestly do not understand this logic.
Because lot of them aren’t good citizens. And deluded/ineffective rescue groups are REALLY hard to separate from “good” ones on the issues, so they get lumped together.
The rescue that adopted out my dog considers her a success. Because they never followed up with the adoptive family. Who sold her as an unsuitable city dog (she is) six months after they got her. You can’t jyst get the metrics from the rescues, those aren’t the relevant results. They also aren’t complete. If I run into major problems with a rescue, do I go back to the shelter? The people who misled me (or misjudged the dog, or whatever) in the first place? I NEVER would.
Bites from shelter dogs IS a relevant result. Those being on the rise is much more relevant than the half-complete stories touted by rescues as "success. "
[QUOTE=MustangSavvy;8888640]
Your ignorance and hatred is killing good dogs. [/QUOTE]
The more you promote these dogs as the new “lassie” who can do anything and be rehabbed from anything, the more this cycle will continue.
[QUOTE=yellowbritches;8888746]
How on god’s green earth is it a bad message to take dogs from about as horrible of a situation they can be in, help them, and then show that they can be rehabbed and go on to be good canine citizens??? I honestly do not understand this logic.[/QUOTE]
The more you promote these dogs as the new “lassie” who can do anything and be rehabbed from anything, the more this cycle will continue.
[QUOTE=snowrider;8888732]
Of course it’s the breed. They are very popular around here and the breeders absolutely breed for bite strength and size and a huge percentage of the dogs they sell are subsequently euthanized for aggression. I’ve posted before about my friends co-worker who breeds them for money and typically euthanizes al her males by age 3 or 4 because of aggression. When puppies sell for over $1000 people don’t give a rip. Ask any vet or animal control officer and they’ll tell you that the dogs being bred and sold are often inherently aggressive.
Now do I know nice pit bulls? Yes absolutely. But let’s not pretend the majority of breeders care one bit about temperament. They are breeding for a market that wants a scary looking dog and for whatever reason that seems to be tied to aggression. They’re not breeding it out.
As for other breeds, yes lots of them bite too. I don’t think dogs like malamutes, border collies or German shepherds have much business being pets to be honest. They are working dogs and most people can’t handle them properly either. Malamutes and Akitas are every bit as aggressive as they are advertised to be (I own a spitz breed). But at least they’re not typically being bred by someone who plans to sell them on craigslist, advertising them as being by Crusher and out of Mothra which is the way 99% of pitbulls around here are conceived. At this point it is absolutely about this breed.[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with you. I feel like BSL is ineffective too, if a city has a problem with vicious dogs, apply the… Ummm… “persecution” to anything above a certain size. Yeah, yeah, small dogs bite. Big dogs bite harder and aren’t as easy to kick off. I especially think pit bull specific legislation is dumb, since the real idiots are often into corsos and mastiffs now. SSL (size specific legislaton) is my new rallying cry. It would apply to my dogs, under a Montreal style “persecution” my dogs would have to be sterilized (done) and muzzled in public (fine, it would keep them from eating strange, exciting city food. )
One factor in places such as Denver, where they’ve had a BSL for many years, is that there are still attacks. That’s because people bring dogs illegally into the area, and it’s not to be the family pet.
[QUOTE=JanM;8888915]
One factor in places such as Denver, where they’ve had a BSL for many years, is that there are still attacks. That’s because people bring dogs illegally into the area, and it’s not to be the family pet.[/QUOTE]
Federal laws would fix that. But there is no will or funding. Patchwork of dog bylaws are likely, unfortunately, useless. Much like gun laws and gun free zones; essentially useless due to lack of universal/federal oversight.
[QUOTE=skyon;8888823]
The more you promote these dogs as the new “lassie” who can do anything and be rehabbed from anything, the more this cycle will continue.[/QUOTE]
No one is promoting these dogs as “the new Lassie”, in case you had forgotten Lassie isn’t a real dog. Not of these dogs can be saved but some of them can be. The adopted out dogs from the Vick case have NOT hurt anyone. They are loving with other dogs, cats and children. They are living a life they deserve after coming from horrible circumstances. I repeat your unfounded hatred and ignorance are killings good dogs.
[QUOTE=Hawkridge;8888588]
So you used to show American Pit Bull Terriers? And here we have so many pit bull advocates stating there is no such thing as a Pit Bull…so which is it? Are they or are they not an actual breed? I’m confused about this…[/QUOTE]
I believe they are UKC recognized http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/Breeds/Terrier/AmericanPitBullTerrier with weight pull being one of the more common sporting events.
That said, if you told me as a veterinarian that I could choose between going a room with a random Pitbull or a random Saint Bernarnd or Akita. I’ll take the Ptibull. Upside being Akitas aren’t common and by and large the folks I meet with Akitas know what they’re doing. The nice GSD’s I meet are wonderful, but the sketchy ones are way too numerous, last dog to take a potshot at me was a GSD who needs serious behavioral work. I have met plenty of pitbulls who showed inappropriate behavior towards people, but definitely at a lower rate than GSD’s.
I am also, however, sick and tired of patching up innocent dogs who have been severely injured by pitbulls at large/not kept on leash. I have seen countless dogs attacked either hanging out in their own yard or while out for a walk on leash. This summer, I euthanized a dog with abdominal punctures and a severely fractured leg who was the victim of two pitbulls. Surgeon needed for the leg. Minimum 10k to save the dog. Pitbulls owners were unquestionably legally responsible for this bill (owner of attacking dogs identified his dogs as pitbulls) and refused to step up to the plate in any way shape, manner or form. Victim’s owners couldn’t pay either, so dog was euthanized. I’d like to see those owners facing jail time. There was a lot of paperwork filled out on that one with local law enforcement
In less than 10% of the cases I see–some requiring multiple surgeries and weeks of bandage changes–has the owner of the dog doing the mauling honored their legal financial responsibility. When it’s a dog other than a pitbull responsible, usually one person brings the injured dog with someone else (owner of attacking dog) following behind, horrified with credit card in hand
[QUOTE=Sswor;8888021]
Two things, you are trying to apply math principles in an equation where two of the factors are unknowns and attempting to use it to prove something.
Second, the OP was about dog aggression and the threat that this type of dog poses to all other pet owners and their pets. How is it fair/just that I have to accept the risk that my dogs may or may not be mauled to death in an unprovoked ambush attack in my own neighborhood while I simply enjoy the evening with my pets? All so pit bull enthusiasts can enjoy their animals unencumbered by any sort of restrictive legislation? Is that not placing pit bull enthusiasts interests over the interests of everyone else?[/QUOTE]
Actually, I think there are stats. Again read the recently releasedbook “Pitbull”.
[QUOTE=Belmont;8887901]
Fine maul or kill - GSD, Mastiffs (all breeds/kinds), Rotties… Hell, a bulkier Catahoula can be put in this category as well, along with mostly any other dog above the 50lb range, especially if they are specifically bred for guard or hunting/bey type situations. They can all maul or kill. If you really want to get into it, a Labrador has the potential, especially as people are starting to bring in the bigger, blocky types.
Again, I made the statement earlier, the large number of pit bulls owned by reckless people vs any other breed makes it seem like pits are the more dangerous. When in reality, there are MUCH more dangerous breeds out there. They are just generally owned by responsible people. One of our last rabies quarantine dogs was a GSD that literally ran out of his front door while the mans wife was bringing in groceries and mauled someone jogging down the street. The owner was able to run out, grab the dog by the collar, and rip him off. If he wasn’t there, who knows what could have happened.[/QUOTE]
Yes, all those dogs you mentioned could be put in the “maul” category, the “kill” category, extremely unlikely.
The pit bull/pit bull type “are” in both categories. Some because of bad owners…others that have good owners. The proof, incidents and high numbers are there…you’re making excuses for known and proven facts.
The GSD case you mentioned…at least the owner was able to stop the attack before it escalated to something worse. If that had been a pit bull I sincerely doubt the owner would have been able to pull it off.
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