Your quote…
No, racing puts extreme stress on young horses without a ‘defined’ ramp up system, and at the very least escalates very quickly by its timeline and nature.
To which Dr Bramlage, a very respected name in the equine veterinary industry, addressed.
Two breakdowns at Del Mar yesterday.
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/236989/difficult-day-at-del-mar
I have a question for you guys about Mongolian Groom since I have never been part of a emergency medical team for a downed horse on track.
I saw his leg, and it was obvious to even a spectator that there would not be anything that could be done. I saw the green screens go up. I guess I’m asking why didn’t the vets euthanize him then and there behind the screens? I am unclear of how you get a horse loaded onto an trailer ambulance, when he cannot walk, and then the ride and then diagnostics? Hopefullly they gave him sedatives and strong pain killers while behind the green screen? Just wondering how this is done, and how long the horse suffered, and still can’t figure out how they got him to board a trailer with that foot literally “hanging off” like it was.
FWIW, I very much enjoyed 2 days of the BC races, I thought SA did a good job, and Mitole has further captured my heart. It is a shame that all the races that were broadcast only on subscription TV, and then when they switched over to national network TV that is when a breakdown occurred.
Ok, since many event horses are OTTBs, where’s the rub? Especially since they are even more conservative in jumping sports with the rate in which they ramp us the stressors. They should be even more ready, seeing as how their bone density/soundness was improved on the track…
A couple other questions:
I assume since racing afficionados are ok with the age in which they raced, they are also ok with reining Futurities etc? Seeing as how racing is arguably more intense than any other sport - at least that is how it’s presented when we’re talking about race day drugs - other sports should follow suit and have their horses at peak performance by age 3.
Are we saying there would be no benefit in slowing down the rate at which stress is induced in race horses? As in, beginning the training at the same time, but taking longer than a year to have them ready to face off with one another?
Finally question - are there any other vets that support Dr. Bramlage? I’m ignorant there.
Ok, I’ve been kind of half following this debate, but I felt compelled to weigh in on this post because there seems to be some misunderstandings swirling about that influence the conversation.
Yes, there are loads of veterinarians who support the ages at which racehorses begin their training and racing careers. This is one of the most extensively studied topics in the industry.
One of the leading pieces of scientific literature on this subject is Dr. Nunamaker’s shin study, which began data collection in the 1980s with information being published through the 00s:
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep…0102000076.PDF
Here is a more readable summary of some of the high points:
https://thehorse.com/14454/bone-form…with-exercise/
The bone density required for racing, even at the lowest of levels, far exceeds what is required for jumping or other horse sports. There are completely different forces at work. I wish I had a citation handy on this, but unfortunately I do not.
To address some of your other questions specifically:
I assume since racing afficionados are ok with the age in which they raced, they are also ok with reining Futurities etc?
This is a matter of apples and oranges, in my opinion. Racehorses begin their careers at two because the data supports the need for the horses to be exposed to speed at a young age in order to develop the bone density necessary to race safely. Reining is a completely different sport, and one I know very little about. I do know that reining doesn’t required bone density beyond “normal,” so our scientific literature on racing would not apply. I don’t think you will find racing people to be collectively in support of asking a horse to perform before it is developmentally ready.
Seeing as how racing is arguably more intense than any other sport - at least that is how it’s presented when we’re talking about race day drugs - other sports should follow suit and have their horses at peak performance by age 3.
I’m not following your logic. Do you care to expand on what you mean by this?
Are we saying there would be no benefit in slowing down the rate at which stress is induced in race horses? As in, beginning the training at the same time, but taking longer than a year to have them ready to face off with one another?
You are speaking in absolutes; I think most people understand that you have to evaluate horses as individuals on a case-by-case basis. There can be benefits to what you propose: if you have a developmentally immature horse, if the horse mentally isn’t ready, the horse develops minor or major work-related injuries that need to heal, etc. And plenty of people do just what you propose in those situations. However, the horses need to begin speed work in that two year old year. Going long and slow provides no benefit to bone density, just like delaying the process also provides no benefit. So if the horses is fit and ready to run at speed, why would you just keep them fit and ready to run for the next year with no outlet for them to release their energy? There is benefit to be gained from racing: as hard as one may try, you can’t replicate race conditions in training. The atmosphere, the routine, the sustained effort-- you just can’t recreate that in the morning.
Every single country in the world with a developed racing program begins horse’s careers at two years of age. We do it, Australia does it, all of Europe does it (including Germany), Asia does it, South America does it, South Africa does it.
Does that I mean I think two year old racing in this country is perfect? No. I have my own criticisms. I think too many marquee races for juveniles create situations where temptation can overtake good judgement. I think it’s unfortunate that racing has become so insanely expensive that there are owners and trainers who have to rely on two year olds to pay the bills, so to speak. But your initial assertion that “racing puts extreme stress on young horses without a ‘defined’ ramp up system, and at the very least escalates very quickly by its timeline and nature” is not an accurate assessment of the situation. Extensive research has gone into the timeline used to train racehorses.
Interesting article on Paulick Report discussing new bone production from creating more dense bone vs new bone production from healing a fracture.
Still much work but seems like a step in the right direction.
^^^^ All of this. :yes:
I also want to add that this preference for not asking horses to do anything useful until they are 4, 5, or 6 years old is a relatively recent development, probably due to the hunter world’s current preference for anything warmblood. Back in the day, when TBs were the ride of choice, horses were started (and usually jumping courses) at two. That was the norm–TBs are an early maturing breed and horsemen put them to work when they were capable of doing the job. My best friend’s TB was (then) AHSA HOY in the 1st Year Green Division (fences at 3’6") at the age of three, and no one saw anything unusual in that.
Again, Palm Beach, you are trumpeting your lack of knowledge.
Eventing at the lower levels is sport, usually.
Eventing at the upper levels is a hard working business, and the riders have invested an incredible a mount of time, and money getting there. Their horses are their partners, and they have built up a relationship, and understanding. Not every horse and rider makes it to the top, and it’s not, at the upper levels, something you can bu your way into.
There is always a chance that a fracture can be repaired even when it appears to be extremely serious to the naked eye. There is nothing wrong with doing diagnostics to determine if the horse has a reasonable chance at survival before euthanaizing.
As far as how they get them onto the trailer when they can’t walk goes, they walk them on. The trailer lowers down so that the ramp has very little slope to it and they are able to hobble their way onto the trailer. Once they are on the trailer there are pads that squeeze together to form a chute around the horse to stabilize him as they travel the short distance to the barn or in this case, the on site clinic. They can administer drugs before loading but whether they did or not in this case I would have no idea.
So all upper level event riders are professionals? Sorry, my bad. Didn’t know that. In fact, I went to an event once in 2018 or 2017 and there was an adorable young lady named Savannah Fulton who was competing, and for some reason I thought she was a working student, not a professional. So what percentage of all eventers are upper level eventers? How many levels of eventing are there, and at what level(s) do only professionals participate? I thought it was kind of like showing, where there are a vast multitude of amateurs and only a few professionals. Educate me, please.
You should probably read up on physical conditioning in general. Those principles apply to training a horse as well. Not only are you teaching a horse to do something, you are physically conditioning the body so the horse can progress to more difficult and strenuous activities.
Progressive loading is an important concept to understand as well. If you read the bucked shin articles you’ll understand it better.
What does a reining futurity have to do with it? What’s not OK about a reining futurity?
There not only is no benefit to slowing down the rate at which stress is induced in race horses, it’s actually detrimental to the development of remodeled bone and stronger tissues. Again, read the bucked shin articles. I believe the recommended time frame to “stress” the horse is about every 4 days.
Why would you subject a horse to a year long training process before racing it? Are there studies you can link that shows that a horse needs to be in training for a year before being fit to race? Races usually take 1 - 2 minutes to run, you think it takes a year to get fit enough to run for a minute or two?
Palm Beach- Here is a nicely written article explaining the levels , fence heights and speeds. Years ago we also had long format at three day Events. which included Roads and Tracks, Steeplechase and more Roads and Tracks before CC. The difficulty of acquiring the necessary land to have room for that put an end to it. The last major one was in 2000. They are still being run at the lower levels, Novice, and Training. For more info than below-Google is your friend.
https://heelsdownmag.com/eventing-explained-what-to-expect-at-each-level-presented-by-flair/
I think something else being overlooked in this debate is the differences in skill sets required for an upper level event horse versus a racehorse. It’s one of those “it’s so obvious I didn’t think it needed to be said” things, but as the debate continues, I am realizing it may be worth reiterating.
The bulk of the “training” the racehorses is conditioning, with less emphasis on schooling for desired outcomes. Racehorses have to be controlled while they run fast, but that’s about it. Under saddle, a horse needs to understand basic rein aids and gaits. It takes less than 30 days to teach horses things like pull right equals go right, pulling on both reins means stop, a kick/smooch/tap with whip means go faster, etc. I’m not trying to say racehorses aren’t trained to be ridden, but the fact of the matter is that they don’t need a lot of sophisticated buttons installed.
Other horse sports, specifically eventing, require a lot more finesse. Well before a horse even reaches recognized levels of competition, it’s going to need to receive far more under saddle education than a racehorse. Hell, I have never competed beyond beginner novice (and have no ambitions to), but even at that lowest level in eventing, a horse still needs more education than a typical racehorse. Straightness, balance, self-carriage, timely transitions, adjustability-- those fundamentals are not inherent to horses. Training and schooling demands continue to increase as you move up the levels, which takes time.
Someone like Justify can win the most challenging feat in all of North American racing, the Triple Crown, coming off of only three career starts in his first year of competition. Yet I guarantee you there is no event horse in all of history who was ready to negotiate a five star course after just three career outings in their first year of competition… except maybe in the movie Sylvester. :lol: It’s not the conditioning alone that shifts the peak performance age in sport horses, it’s the time required to actually teach the horse his job.
Thanks for the link, it was helpful. But it still looks like the vast majority of competitors are amateurs with varying skill levels, and maybe a horse or two, not professionals who make a living riding and training them.
As a fan of eventing, while this may be true at the lower levels, by the time you reach intermediate and advance, the professionals outnumber the amateurs. Sure, you have a handful of ammys, but far more pros.
Also, the whole concept of “professional v. amateur” is imperfect for determining rider capability. I get where you are coming from, but the delineation isn’t always clear. Someone like Woodge Fulton, who you mentioned above, probably gets on nearly as many horses a day as a working student as an exercise rider at the track does… she’s just not gettin paid for it. (Sidebar: my racetrack jobs were FAR “easier” than my working student jobs! Working student is code for slave labor. ) Then you have people like Frankie Thieriot, who was named to represent USA in international team competition, yet literally keeps her one upper level competition horse in her backyard. The type of skill someone like her needs to be competitive at that level against the best pros in the world is insane— in no way does her amateur status mean she is less capable than her pro peers. If anything, she probably has more natural talent than many to be able to do what she does.
At the racetrack, at least you need a license. In other horse sports, anyone can hang out a shingle and call themselves a professional. Usually by the upper levels in eventing, the cream rises to the top, so to speak. Whether you are amateur or pro, if you make it to that level, you have to have serious ability.
@Palm Beach-For heaven’s sake child, hie yourself to KY in the end of April, walk the course, and watch horse and rider compete over hill and dale,at top speed.and tell yourself they are a bunch of amateurs.
A professional gets paid to ride and train, an amateur does not. It has nothing to do with hills and dales. What part of that is so hard to understand? You are seriously pulling things out of thin air for the sake of argument.
Sponsors pay the bills for horse and rider. Students pay the rider to instruct them. They make large sums as clinicians.
They also get money for promoting products.
They get paid for training horses. They also train and sell horses because not every horse will make it to the top.
That makes them no longer amateurs.
Who is funding all this research?
Dr Allday pulls no punches:
https://stevebyk.com/broadcast/part-2-andy-serling-dr-allday/
His interview starts at about the 38 minute mark.
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
