How long have you had him? How long has he been off the track?
Super interested. I recently got a sort or rescue 5 year old gelding. Put 100lbs on him. In a lot better shape now.
Hes super sensitieve in the girth area, and when you palpate for ulcers. Vet doesn’t have a scope but said its highly likely with this horses back ground. (used as a dancing charro horse, and other weird stuff)
Also asked the vet to draw blood for lymes (didn’t want to) I obviously need a new vet.
This horse is also super aggressive around other horses, very very studish, will attempt to kick. Had his T levels checked, he’s a gelding.
He did kick me in my thigh a few days ago. (Im totally at fault) but how he’s attempted to do it twice more. He had a bad attitude.
Also what kind of feed is he on?
I did try MagRestore at recommended loading dose for 30 days with absolutely no change.
He’s been off the track since April 2015 and I’ve had him since then as well. The issue has been there since day 1. He was treated with gastroguard for 30 days with a taper off at that time, and again I treated him with another round a few weeks ago. No change on the treatment or after. He’s got mildly loose manure, not balls of poop as normal, but is on a high alfalfa diet. (The alfalfa doesn’t make a difference to his skin jumpiness either. He’s been on both full grain and full alfalfa and a mix in between diet and the symptoms have always been there).
The chircopractor was out last night, and says he’s fine as far as she can feel, see, tell. His back was very mildly out, but nothing to write home about. She thinks it’s his “quirky personality” but I just don’t buy that he should naturally be this sensitive.
My gelding is also extremely sensitive-- particularly on his flanks. My vet suggested Lysine, and it has made a noticeable difference. Don’t quote me on the exact explanation or science of it, but I want to say that sometimes the sensitivity can be some form of the papillomavirus, and lysine alleviates symptoms of it…Again, this is my attempt to paraphrase my very foggy recollection of the explanation she gave me… for what it’s worth. Worth a try anyway!
[QUOTE=LearningBearWithMe;8534546]
My gelding is also extremely sensitive-- particularly on his flanks. My vet suggested Lysine, and it has made a noticeable difference. Don’t quote me on the exact explanation or science of it, but I want to say that sometimes the sensitivity can be some form of the papillomavirus, and lysine alleviates symptoms of it…Again, this is my attempt to paraphrase my very foggy recollection of the explanation she gave me… for what it’s worth. Worth a try anyway![/QUOTE]
You’re actually the second person (the first via PM) who suggested Lysine as a possible thing that he could need! I don’t take FeedXL with more than a grain of salt, but when I did plug his nutrition into it, he was deficient in Lysine. It’s worth a try, that’s for sure. I just want to see him more comfortable!
ETA: I realize Alfalfa has a lot of Lysine in it, and the FeedXL told me he was deficient because the lysine isn’t listed on the alfalfa pellets he receives. Could he still be deficient in lysine while eating such a large amount of alfalfa pellets? I realize sometimes pellets versus hay can make a difference, just not sure with the lysine.
My own OTTB is very sensitive to the touch. He also tests low for Vitamin E and is supplemented year round. Might be worth running a blood panel. My horse does do better on Magnesium. What has worked best for him is Quiessence. Not all the magnesium supplements I tried worked as well as that one.
Edited to add: If you do decide to supplement with Vitamin E keep in mind that the synthetic E is not particularly bioavailable to horses. You really need to find one from a natural source. Some people say you need to feed 30% more if it’s a synthetic, but I’ve also read higher numbers. I buy human Vitamin E and just add the pills to my horse’s grain.
[QUOTE=Guyot;8532750]
We have a horse just like this at my farm. After years of struggling we finally ran a vitamin E test, he was dangerously low… They need vitamin E to generate and maintain nerves and nerve endings. That’s why he was so so sensitive to the touch. Worth looking into as I don’t believe the blood work was that expensive. We did also run to check his selenium levels, which were fine.
On liquid Vitamine E he was a different horse in a couple of weeks. Not saying this is what’s going on with your guy, but something to look at and try. Best of luck![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bogie;8534702]
My own OTTB is very sensitive to the touch. He also tests low for Vitamin E and is supplemented year round. Might be worth running a blood panel. My horse does do better on Magnesium. What has worked best for him is Quiessence. Not all the magnesium supplements I tried worked as well as that one.
Edited to add: If you do decide to supplement with Vitamin E keep in mind that the synthetic E is not particularly bioavailable to horses. You really need to find one from a natural source. Some people say you need to feed 30% more if it’s a synthetic, but I’ve also read higher numbers. I buy human Vitamin E and just add the pills to my horse’s grain.[/QUOTE]
Good to know about the natural form of Vit E! I’m going to put a call into a new vet to see where they will take this issue. I hope to pull some labs and get some answers that the other vet was dragging toes over.
Have you tested him for PSSM?
[QUOTE=bugsynskeeter;8534866]
Have you tested him for PSSM?[/QUOTE]
I would just do the recommended diet change and see if you notice any improvement. Even if you were to send in a hair sample to test for Type 1, it doesn’t give you any answers about Type 2, which requires a muscle biopsy to determine.
You can send in hair for Type 1, but realize that if it comes back negative, you still haven’t ruled out Type 2.
I’ve known more than a few horses coming off the track to be bananas about grooming. Some are very jumpy. Some are mean about it. It takes time, patience, kindness, and consistency, but they do get over it. I owned one OTTB that took years before he became totally relaxed about grooming. I’ve worked with others that had noticeable improvement in behavior in a few months. If he came off the track in April, I would not be all that worried about it. It’s not unusual for a horse to be more sensitive in the flanks/loins, and if you already have a sensitive one, the reaction there can seem a little extreme.
Things like magnesium, aminos, Vitamin E, stomach and hind gut support won’t hurt, but give him some time, too.
[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;8534912]
I would just do the recommended diet change and see if you notice any improvement. Even if you were to send in a hair sample to test for Type 1, it doesn’t give you any answers about Type 2, which requires a muscle biopsy to determine.
You can send in hair for Type 1, but realize that if it comes back negative, you still haven’t ruled out Type 2.[/QUOTE]
It’s been my understanding that the PSSM diet includes low sugar and higher fat. He’s on alfalfa and grass hay mix diet. No high sugar high starch grains or anything of the like. Just alfalfa pellets, cubes, and grass hay mix with a little bit of rice bran. So it’s my thought, unless I’m wrong, don’t know a whole lot about PSSM diets, that he’s eating close to how a PSSM horse should.
[QUOTE=IPEsq;8534918]
I’ve known more than a few horses coming off the track to be bananas about grooming. Some are very jumpy. Some are mean about it. It takes time, patience, kindness, and consistency, but they do get over it. I owned one OTTB that took years before he became totally relaxed about grooming. I’ve worked with others that had noticeable improvement in behavior in a few months. If he came off the track in April, I would not be all that worried about it. It’s not unusual for a horse to be more sensitive in the flanks/loins, and if you already have a sensitive one, the reaction there can seem a little extreme.
Things like magnesium, aminos, Vitamin E, stomach and hind gut support won’t hurt, but give him some time, too.[/QUOTE]
This does seem to be the theme of people I know and who know the horse in person. I’m just worried for him and hate to push him if something really is going on. We’re going on almost a year since retirement and ownership with no change to touch. HOWEVER. It’s important for me to add that if he’s eating hay, I can touch him a lot more than if he were, say, standing in cross ties. He’s still not happy, still pins ears, but won’t be bothered to lift his head to bite out. Haven’t poked around at his flanks while eating so I can’t say if he still kicks out.
That’s the tiny little bit of me that thinks maybe it’s just a behavioral race track habit. But how can I be so sure?
Your comment about his behavior improving when he’s eating hay does not change my answer.
I have a horse who is very sensitive about certain kinds of touch. He is not from the track and does not have that excuse, but he was a total spazz on the cross ties from day one of me owning him and did not like to be groomed. We have done everything from a testing and nutrition standpoint. We went through ulcer treatment. He gets a high protein diet with ample forage and a high dose of Vitamin E. I provide him extra gastric and hind gut support. He has been Xrayed from poll to sacrum. We have tried Robaxin, Sucralfate, Previcox, acupuncture, chiropractic, you name it. We have injected his neck. He has been seen my so many vets I’ve lost count. The only thing left are some really far out theories like maybe he had a complication from castration surgery or to try something with more kick like Gabapentin. One behavior that has remained through all of the therapies and treatments that we have done is that he is not a fan of certain kinds of touch and he is prone to muscle tension in certain areas. But, I have learned that there are some things he does like, and I have expanded his range of touch he reluctantly tolerates by essentially treating him the way I’d treat an OTTB with the same issues, although the kinds of touch my horse likes (generally involving more elbow grease) is what several OTTBs tend to not like.
[QUOTE=Malter;8534927]
It’s been my understanding that the PSSM diet includes low sugar and higher fat. He’s on alfalfa and grass hay mix diet. No high sugar high starch grains or anything of the like. Just alfalfa pellets, cubes, and grass hay mix with a little bit of rice bran. So it’s my thought, unless I’m wrong, don’t know a whole lot about PSSM diets, that he’s eating close to how a PSSM horse should.[/QUOTE]
Correct that its low sugar and high fat. But typically, what you are feeding is just not high enough in fat. The PSSM diet usually adds more fat in the way of oil, as well as some supplementation of ALCAR, Vitamin E, and sometimes Magnesium Oxide.
You have the low sugar down, but may want to look at adding more fat at the very least.
[QUOTE=Malter;8532612]
We have not had any sort of intense workup done. Past the ulcers DX by the vet, he doesn’t seem to have much more suggestion for me, which is troubling. We do have another area vet which I will likely bring in to help sort this out further, possibly to get a better look at the spine pelvis, etc.
The vet did do a basic lameness exam when I mentioned feeling weird at the canter to the right and being mildly concerned for his ankles, but he found no reason to point to a soundness problem at that point. He’s got old cold small osselets on his front ankles from running until he was 7 years old, but they are not hot, cause no reaction upon palpating, and the vet thinks are completely unrelated to any other issue. [/QUOTE]
Osselets is the only concern the Vet has re: ankles?
Sensitivity can be a symptom of DSLD/ESPA which is why I ask about the mention of ankles.
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8535438]
Osselets is the only concern the Vet has re: ankles?
Sensitivity can be a symptom of DSLD/ESPA which is why I ask about the mention of ankles.[/QUOTE]
Though we have not xrayed the ankles (I am insisting on xrays when the vet comes back out, whether that’s old or new vet, but likely new), they have been extensively “looked” at, palpated, etc and have always remained cold, set, and non-reactive. Just below his shoulder, downward, seems to be the only part of him he doesn’t have a reaction over being touched. I think further up, probably at the beginning of this thread, someone mentioned a horse with DSLD who presented with similar sensitivity. His fetlocks have not dropped, not even remotely, and the small cold ossletes on him seem to be a non-issue. But of course, I do intend to discuss his ankles with the next vet. The first vet who ever saw him said his legs and ankles looked great for the amount of years he raced. The second vet, current one, said they’re osselets but clearly cold set and non-issue at this point.
I am still toying with the idea of doing a bute trial to see if we can eliminate pain somewhere to help with under saddle issues as well as the touch issue. The chiropractor said I was insane and it’s just the way that he is, but for some reason I just don’t like that answer. Only because one side is so much worse than the other.
[QUOTE=Malter;8536575]
Though we have not xrayed the ankles (I am insisting on xrays when the vet comes back out, whether that’s old or new vet, but likely new), they have been extensively “looked” at, palpated, etc and have always remained cold, set, and non-reactive. Just below his shoulder, downward, seems to be the only part of him he doesn’t have a reaction over being touched. I think further up, probably at the beginning of this thread, someone mentioned a horse with DSLD who presented with similar sensitivity. His fetlocks have not dropped, not even remotely, and the small cold ossletes on him seem to be a non-issue. But of course, I do intend to discuss his ankles with the next vet. The first vet who ever saw him said his legs and ankles looked great for the amount of years he raced. The second vet, current one, said they’re osselets but clearly cold set and non-issue at this point.
I am still toying with the idea of doing a bute trial to see if we can eliminate pain somewhere to help with under saddle issues as well as the touch issue. The chiropractor said I was insane and it’s just the way that he is, but for some reason I just don’t like that answer. Only because one side is so much worse than the other.[/QUOTE]
I understand the idea of a bute trial, but wonder if the issue is actually ulcers, bute will make it worse… why not another Nsaid/anti-inflammatory that is kinder to the gut?
[QUOTE=Angela Freda;8536593]
I understand the idea of a bute trial, but wonder if the issue is actually ulcers, bute will make it worse… why not another Nsaid/anti-inflammatory that is kinder to the gut?[/QUOTE]
He has been treated twice for ulcers in the last year and scoped clear the last round just a few weeks ago. I have left over omeprazole and intend to feed it with bute. I’m not exactly happy about putting him on bute unnecessarily, but it seems the quickest and easiest way to help figure out whether it’s something internal, an imbalance, or a physical discomfort. I don’t really know of any other alternative to bute for this type of trial, aside from Banamine, but really, either one is going to not have the best effect on his stomach.
Previcoxx?
Ok… not reading the whole thread but I know this to be true with his twin brother. Hind Gut issues DO create this problem. The right side is the tell sign. Needs constant hay, and go buy some Oat Flour and feed about half a cup daily. I would also get Mag Restore and feed him that for a couple of months. Doesn’t need to be forever, just to get the “twitchiness” out of his system.
Needs real exercises. i.e. not just rides, turnout… but to run. Many OTTBs never forget they were race horses and need a chance to channel that to be really happy. Their whole bodies “have a need for speed”. I don’t mean get on and race the piss out of them… just make sure they have a chance to feed that need.
This is NOT a pain issue in the sense that Bute will only make it worse. Stop doing ulcer meds. They strip the body of Magnesium which additionally cause the twitches.
