My Horrible CWD Experience: A Cautionary Tale

[vxf111]

@Juliette's Mom

tl:dr summary (full details in the thread below):

• I was looking for an 18” saddle and bought a saddle that CWD advertised as an 18” saddle. The saddle seat is actually 17”.

• CWD’s misrepresentation of the saddle size wasn’t discovered until 10 months later when I ordered an 18.5 used saddle from CWD.

• When confronted with this, CWD claimed the 18” seat description was based on a hand measurement. I did a hand measurement and verified that the saddle is 17”.

• CWD refused to make any recompense – return/refund or exchange – for the misrepresented saddle.

• I have a good faith basis to believe that CWD is misrepresenting the seat size of another used saddle currently on its website.

Since I teach writing I couldn’t resist pointing out that only ONE sentence here has a clause phrased in passive voice

Passive voice being a way to “hide the actor” (and here, take the focus from the actor’s responsibility).

[BAC]

@Juliette's Mom

Wow. I did not anticipate that this post would generate quite this amount of discussion. Many, many thanks to those who offered helpful saddle search suggestions. Going forward, I intend to find an independent saddle fitter to get expert guidance for my next purchase. Many of the experts (Anne and, especially, Susy) that posters named in this thread have come highly recommended from friends who heard this saga as it unfolded over the past 6 weeks. I especially appreciate the education many of you provided and reference resources you have shared. Further, thank you to those who shared their experiences of CWD’s operations.

Regarding the saddle fitting the horse, prior to purchasing the Amerigo, I was using one of the barn’s 17” saddles for lessoning on various school horses. I was not knowledgeable about horse fitting in my first saddle purchase. Literally, days before I was going to start the lease for the horse, he developed a severe and rapidly worsening lameness issue and was abruptly shipped back to his owner out of state. I’d already purchased the saddle and just kept using it on lesson horses. By the way, I particularly liked the description of this process as buying a single swimsuit for 2 bodies. What I don’t know is how I could have fit many bodies with a single swimsuit.

Some responses questioned how I could not have noticed the saddle size/fit for 10 months. Understand that I had NO frame of reference for a properly fitting saddle, as I had never been in a right-sized seat. If your parents buy your shoes a half-size too small, you grow up thinking that’s how shoes should fit. And, as one gracious poster responded, I’m a bit fluffy. When I thought an 18” seat was snug, I assumed 18” is 18” irrespective of the brand. So, I did what I thought would fit me into an 18” seat. Recall that I also had to consider flap length. I’ve never seen a saddle larger than 19” and the 19” saddles are usually for very tall riders (with proportionally long flaps). I was unsure that I could ever find a 19” inch seat coupled with short flaps. So, I noticed that it wasn’t a perfect fit but I did not know that the saddle size was that far off.

Finally, some responses raised the issue/question about whether the length of time between the sale and the discovery should make CWD responsible for all, some or none of the problem. I didn’t go to Joe’s Bait, Tackle & Saddles. I went to CWD – a saddle manufacturer – thinking that they would know what they are selling. Nothing would have suggested that a saddle manufacturer did not know how to measure or determine the size of a saddle seat. Nothing in the ad suggested that there was a difference in seat size or that I should go behind them to verify the details they listed to advertise the saddle. I expect to have to do that on Craigslist, Ebay or Facebook, and for that reason, I chose the “easier route” of purchasing from a well-known manufacturer: CWD. I did not get something more valuable (as in the example of the vehicle that turned out to be 2 years younger – and likely, higher in Blue Book value). I got something that was not as advertised with no notice that I could not rely on their representation. And, as I stated originally, I had not used the saddle much in those 10 months due to medical issues that kept me from riding. So, no, I do not concede that they have no responsibility for their action, given that I would not have been in the market for a larger saddle only 10 months later if they had only sold me what they advertised.

I appreciate that many of you have understood that this was just very poor customer service from CWD. A business that sells used merchandise, as well as their own brand of new merchandise, has made the business decision to use the first transaction as a chance to establish a relationship for the next transaction. Whether the misrepresented Amerigo was the product of mistake or nefarious intent, when discovered, CWD’s had every opportunity to choose a response that could have preserved that future transaction. They could have offered to exchange the 17” Amerigo and apply a percentage of the cost against another used saddle. They would have gotten the Amerigo back (and earned another commission for reselling it) and I would have gotten a properly sized saddle (for which there would be a third commission). They could have offered to take it back (with an appropriate decreased value for the 10 months) for a store credit against a new saddle. There are so many ways a creative and customer-service oriented business can respond to this type of error. And, if they had chosen to even try to make it right (which can mean a lot of things other than a full refund), I would have been singing their praises. Unfortunately (for them), their chosen response was the equivalent of offering me the back seam of their breeches to kiss.

OP you need to go back and read vxf’s post, it states the situation perfectly. None of your arguments are relevant because it took you TEN MONTHS to decide the saddle wasn’t right. You still haven’t given an explanation (unless I missed it) about why your trainer wasn’t involved in this purchase. Just because you are new to saddle shopping is no excuse, its no different than any other big ticket purchase one makes in other areas of their life. I am about to replace my heat/AC/hot water heater and although I am clueless about such things I am doing my research, getting estimates and not just taking the word of the people who sell and install these systems as gospel. It is my responsibility to educate myself in this area before embarking on such an expensive purchase.

[trubandloki]

One good thing this thread does is it reminds us to measure all aspects of saddles when we get them, even if we order them from a reputable company that should know how to measure a saddle.

[SuzieQNutter]

@SonnysMom

So I recently rode a 16.3 h horse at my trainers. The owner is a 6’ tall man. Horse is also ridden by 8 year old 60 pound children. I am 5’3 and 170 pounds. How do you have a single saddle fitted to a lesson horse that is ridden by such a large variety of riders. The owner rides in an 18 in saddle. Do you think an 8 year old is going to do well jumping 2’6" in an 18 inch saddle? I can get away with anything in a 17-18 in range. But that 8 year old needs more like a 16 or 16.5 inch. Does every lesson horse have multiple saddles fitted to them? That is cost prohibitive.

Each lesson horse should have a few saddles that are a decent fit. There should be pads/half pads that can make up the difference. I don’t think that each lesson horse needs a perfectly fitted saddle.

Why should her personal saddle be used on lesson horses when she isn’t using it? It is her saddle not the trainers saddle. If you get injured do you just loan your saddle out to your trainer to be used by lesson students and get additional wear and tear?

Yes the lesson horses have their own saddles with a tag on it with their name. Yes they have the foam pads underneath for most of the horses.

Yes it costs money. Nothing really about horses does not cost money. Poverty is owning a horse.

When you have horses that are ridden once or twice a week you can get away more with saddle fit.

When you get up to riding daily or more than once a day, the tack fit matters a lot more. This is an animal working its life for you. One of the things we can do is at least make it comfortable.

[Madison]

@Juliette's Mom

I got something that was not as advertised with no notice that I could not rely on their representation. And, as I stated originally, I had not used the saddle much in those 10 months due to medical issues that kept me from riding. So, no, I do not concede that they have no responsibility for their action, given that I would not have been in the market for a larger saddle only 10 months later if they had only sold me what they advertised.

I get that you want this to be their fault not yours, but there is a lot wrong with this – the whole point of a trial period is that you do not rely on them, you assess it for yourself, and have the option to return it if it doesn’t work for any reason. If you don’t know how saddles should fit, it is on you to involve your trainer or ask a friend who does. And if you had done that, and realized the measurement mistake in the trial period, you would have absolutely been entitled to have CWD refund all shipping costs and pay for return shipping so that it cost you nothing because it didn’t fit and wasn’t what they listed. But you decided it was fine and kept it, and that’s the point at which their responsibility to you ended IMO. It is also not their fault that you didn’t use it much in those 10 months, but that’s irrelevant because you already inspected it and decided it worked for you. You would not have been in the market for a larger saddle only 10 months later if you had done even minimal due diligence and involved your trainer during your trial period. So, I still just can’t see how there is a basis to hold CWD responsible for a decision that you made with full opportunity to inspect the saddle.

[izzy98]

I understand how frustrating it is to discover that there was an error in how the size was originally described, but as with so many other sized items–you have to go by how something fits YOU. If I tried on a size 8 dress in a brand that was new to me and discovered it was too tight, I wouldn’t think I needed to lose weight, I would either size up until the particular dress fit me or I would say this just doesn’t work for me. And it wouldn’t take me 10 months to make that decision.

CWD’s response was not very empathetic, but I can’t blame them.

[paw]

I agree - the actual dimensions of the saddle don’t matter - what matters is whether it fits you. And, just like women’s clothing (grr) a particular size in brand A is not necessarily the same in brand B.

What’s telling to me is that you were perfectly ok in this saddle on school horses, but then you got a (leased a?) horse, and the saddle was no longer the right fit. Which is perfectly normal - horses vary, and the ideal is that the saddle be right for both rider and horse. Finding a different saddle to fit the horse you have can be quite a lengthy process. I once a couple of years finding the right one for my shark-finned OTTB (the winner was a Crump), and then had to search again for the horse (a much differently-shaped Irish TB) who replaced him.

So, appalling customer service interaction aside, I think you just need to chalk this up to experience, sell the saddle you’ve got, and move on. Try ones in your barn, ask your trainer if they’ve got suggestions, and look locally. Or try one of the national sellers - I can vouch for The Show Trunk (https://theshowtrunk.com/) as being honest about what they’ve got and selling quality stuff (disclaimer: they did sell a saddle for me).

[MintHillFarm]

I am sorry to say that you waited way too long. I know you relayed you are not that experienced in saddle purchasing but the seat measurement being most important, right up there with the saddle fitting the horse, was on you.

If the saddle is not suitable to you, put it for sale with the correct seat size. Or offer it as a trade in. Lots of very reputable used saddle dealers out there. I buy Butet only, and purchased my used 18" sight unseen. First thing I did was measure the seat and check the fit to the horse.

If you buy used, get a trial too.

[CantFindDistance]

@BAC

OP you need to go back and read vxf’s post, it states the situation perfectly. None of your arguments are relevant because it took you TEN MONTHS to decide the saddle wasn’t right. You still haven’t given an explanation (unless I missed it) about why your trainer wasn’t involved in this purchase. Just because you are new to saddle shopping is no excuse, its no different than any other big ticket purchase one makes in other areas of their life. I am about to replace my heat/AC/hot water heater and although I am clueless about such things I am doing my research, getting estimates and not just taking the word of the people who sell and install these systems as gospel. It is my responsibility to educate myself in this area before embarking on such an expensive purchase.

This 100%. While CWD is not famous for having great customer service, 10 months is A LONG TIME. I was once an adult beginner, know nothing about saddle fit. But as a responsible person, purchasing an expensive item, i will do my due diligence. Research what the numbers on the flap mean. You don’t need to have miles of experience on a horse to get this. E.g. I wear size 8 with Nikes, i will do my research online to see if Adidas ultraboost fits large or small, true to size, wider etc. THEN give it a try at home to see if it FITS ME, without regarding to the number attached to the shoes! Same with saddle. OP said she doesn’t have experience to know if the saddle fits or not, where is the trainer in the picture?

You can’t expect CWD to be responsible for this in any way. Sell the saddle and move on.

[wotan]

I am going to chime in to tell you my saddle shopping experience. I needed a new saddle to fit a TB…after putting weight on him for 3 months it became obvious that neither of my Dominus saddles were going to work. I am fortunate that a certified saddle fitter works out of our barn. He measured me and the horse and did complete wither tracings and photos. We sent everything to Smith-Worthington Saddlery in Connecticut and they did an awesome job! I paid for shipping on 3 demo saddles, and it turned out one of them was a near-perfect fit. I sent back all 3, and chose to purchase the demo model at a considerable savings over brand new. They did the final fitting, and after I received the saddle and rode in it for two weeks, we sent it back for one more small adjustment, all included in the price. A year later it is still fitting like a glove. I really like knowing I can always send it back for an adjustment for this horse or any future . The leather and workmanship are top-quality and it even has velcro knee and thigh blocks. Check out their web page…they have a huge variety of English saddles and other tack.