NCAA Drops Equestrian As "Emerging Sport" - What Now?

[findeight]

[QUOTE=leyla25;7814707]
… Similarly, at the IVY I went, lots of football players from Iowa, etc would have been farmers(nothing wrong with that) instead of reading Shakespeare, and Milton. So, I am a firm believer that sports opens windows of opportunities and perspectives to many. When you close your mind and think that what you think is the best then you are no different than those that you criticize.[/QUOTE]

Small point, I do know some farmers and they have college degrees from state schools partially funded by academic and farm association scholarships…and they read Milton and Shakespeare at their various flyover country Midwest schools. One has only classical music in his big cab that operates various implements. Go figure…

Need to be very careful with generalities here. This is probably the only time I have been in agreement with trakhener, even if only partially. It is supposed to be about education, not big business sports that exploit 90%+ of all its athletes that will never get a paycheck for participating in their sport after graduation or even before if they get hurt. Most of the money they earn the school does not find its way to academic improvements or enhancements.

I’m not too surprised the equestrian is on the way out. Very expensive to run the programs for a comparative few students who could afford to even qualify to be considered for a slot and very little finacial return for the school compared to other sports that can attract a paying audience and hefty alumni contributions.

[2bayboys]

[QUOTE=findeight;7815277]

I’m not too surprised the equestrian is on the way out. Very expensive to run the programs for a comparative few students who could afford to even qualify to be considered for a slot and very little finacial return for the school compared to other sports that can attract a paying audience and hefty alumni contributions.[/QUOTE]

That’s it in a nutshell.

[ClemsonGraduateRider]

I can’t say that I am necessarily sad to see this happen. Maybe it’s sour grapes because even though I am a good rider, I don’t think I would ever have been recruited for an NCAA team. I was successful on the club team at Clemson and we did ride against some soon-to-be NCAA and varsity teams, but I did not have an “A” show junior career. I also think that for me, having it be my whole life, as collegiate athletics tend to be for the athletes, would have sucked the fun out of it. I also think the NCAA is a terrible organization, but that’s probably not worth getting into here.

I am firmly in the camp that loved IHSA and loved that a walk trot rider’s points – a person who may not have ridden before college – were just as valuable as the open rider who had six figure horses at home. I know that schools have both teams, so it’s not necessarily one or the other, but I just can’t get worked up about equestrian not being an NCAA sport anymore.

I am not sure there is a point in there . . .

[Sunflower]

About one hundred thousand million years ago when I was in college, I was interested in trying to gain a walk on spot to the women’s track team, running middle or long distance. I had the ability to make their qualifying times ( back then) but seriously was shocked when it was explained to me what the practice schedule and competition schedule was. Running and training would be your life, your entire life, and how on earth anyone fit any classes in and around that schedule was beyond me. It was an easy decision for me to figure out I had no interest in trying to do this.

Once, I also ended up in a class that was taught by an assistant football coach, and where I was the ONLY non student athlete in the class. This was Greek and Roman history of all things. Now, I have to say, it was actually very interesting and I really enjoyed it. The assistant football coach was a very entertaining and good lecturer. Disconcertingly, strong suggestions of what exam answers would be were given in open class a few days before the periodic exams ( I cannot really remember, I think there were 4 exams across the semester rather than a final). I found this one of the easiest classes to get high marks in. I don’t know how the student athletes fared.

Another time, taking an intersession class ( on the Christmas break) I ended up with student athletes again. The class met a requirement for something… I do not remember the exact requirement… but the class consisted of a recording that would say, “This is a drum. Bang bang bang. This is a violin. Screetch screetch screetch. This is an oboe. [oboe sound oboe sound oboe sound]. This is a flute. tweet tweet tweet. etc.”

The test…

Bang bang bang. Identify what instrument made that sound.

Tweet Tweet tweet. Identify what instrument made that sound.

Your education dollars at work…

[slp]

I agree with Findeight’s comments on avoiding generalizations, especially the one that was just made implying that student athletes are stupid…my son played D1 lacrosse for four years, graduated from the Business School at his University (and every teammate in the three previous graduating classes received their degree) and all of his teammates from his graduating class have very good jobs, most of them on Wall Street. My son chose a different route, he is an officer in the Army and will return from a deployment to Afghanistan next week. Sorry you had a bad experience one hundred thousand million years ago but it isn’t always like that.

I agree that it would be tough to argue for NCAA equestrian to continue…if all the money spent over the years to get to the level a rider needs to be at to get recruited had been invested in a 529 account there would have probably been enough to fully pay for the four year degree plus grad school.

[leyla25]

And equestrian is not on the way out, only one school dropped it and the rest want to continue and another one was just added so carry on with your conversation.

[Sunflower]

If you think I am suggesting that student athletes are stupid, then you have utterly misread my posts. My points were that the training programs they were on were very intense and seemed to squeeze classroom time. My other point was that the athletes were in certain classes that did not seem to offer optimal education to them-- NOT that student athletes were incapable of doing university work. Viz the link I posted in another post-- that questions how many student athletes are getting the full value of a university education, and how many fail to complete degrees, and how many get a degree that fails to give them skills that translate into employability. The university system is culpable, not the student athlete.

Doubtless there are student athletes that graduate with a useful degree and a useful set of skills. Doubtless though, as I said, there are those student athletes that do not. The focus of recruiting them is to build winning team. The emphasis is on that and not for education when athletic scholarships are offered, generally speaking.

I question the value and the function of the system at a systemic level.

This CNN report and investigation gives more data and information on the systemic concerns. Worth the read. http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/07/us/ncaa-athletes-reading-scores/

[huntergal23]

[QUOTE=leyla25;7815709]
And equestrian is not on the way out, only one school dropped it and the rest want to continue and another one was just added so carry on with your conversation.[/QUOTE]

What school added?

[huntergal23]

[QUOTE=slp;7815613]
I agree that it would be tough to argue for NCAA equestrian to continue…if all the money spent over the years to get to the level a rider needs to be at to get recruited had been invested in a 529 account there would have probably been enough to fully pay for the four year degree plus grad school.[/QUOTE]

This, except of course if you can manage to have a barn pay for your kid to do
the big eq and then get the ncaa to pay for their school. Aren’t those the winners?

[leyla25]

Have about giving some credit to the riders? The winner is someone who puts the time and effort into something whatever it is, especially if he or she enjoys doing it.

[Chaila]

I rode IHSA in the late '80’s and early '90’s before the NCAA got involved. The amazing thing about it was that anybody could do it.

The NCAA version seems like it hands out a handful of scholarships to a group of young women who already had the resources to show at the highest levels. And it still seems like a bit of a sexist racket. How many NCAA football players have to buy their own uniforms? Do the NCAA equestriennes still have to buy their own show clothes? I think they do.

The whole point of the IHSA was that anybody could do it. Beginners through kids who had shown in the AA circuit as juniors, and everyone in between. We had boys on our team! We fund raised to pay for lessons and the College paid our show fees and transportation. It was totally amazing and fun. We’d get lost every Sunday in Westchester and New Jersey in the pre GPS days. We’d freeze our butts off and we’d usually win.

As long as the IHSA stays strong, I don’t think the NCAA and it’s handful of scholarships will make much of an impact in the long run.

[leyla25]

NCAA riders do not have to buy outfits. School provides them.
Scholarships are not only for the wealthy. Many not wealthy successful riders are offered scholarships as well. As a matter of fact it is rare to receive full scholarship(only those with high placings in the finals and depending on the school resources) most get partial.

[PonyPenny]

So much misinformation. If anyone would like specific information about NCAA equestrian, from my daughter’s experience, please pm me.

[IPEsq]

There’s a lot being thrown around here about student athletes that bugs me. For one, many, many more student athletes go on to careers other than professional athletics than go pro. Many use their sport as a way to get access to a school for the purpose of education, whether it’s going to school at all or whether it’s using their recruitment for their sport to help them get into a school with tougher academic requirements than they may be able to get into otherwise. Some student athletes have a goal of playing X for school Y regardless of other decisionmaking factors. It’s unfair to make generalizations about why a person chooses to participate in varsity sports at a given school.

All varsity sports require a lot of training time and team commitment, even the smaller money sports. From what I’ve learned about NCEA teams, they are no different–you have cross training commitments as well as riding, and you have some long travel times to competitions. To get to a point where you could earn a spot on a varsity team, didn’t you have to do a heckuvalot of work in high school too?

Many student athletes take challenging courses. Some may take as many “fluff” courses as they can get away with. I think it’s unfair to assume that just because you have the demanding schedule of a student athlete that you can’t excel academically. After all, these are driven individuals. Some people can also get the same good grades as another person with a lot less study time regardless of what their non-study activities are. It’s also ok if you are a talented athlete who decides that college is for studying and not sports, but I don’t think that means that there is something wrong with having sports!

As for the comment that sports like football recruit from a local talent pool, none of the varsity sports at schools who have high quality programs and history of success are restricted to recruiting local athletes. The big programs have the leverage to recruit the best of the best athletes from wherever they live. I went to a big basketball school on the east coast, and we had some very successful players who came from Alaska! I don’t see why NCAA equestrian would be any different if a school wanted to recruit. If you can offer the most perks (what constitutes a perk may vary), you can get the best athletes, unless one of those great athletes decides to choose another quality about the school over its sports (which happens too, and is also ok).

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

[QUOTE=huntergal23;7819324]
This, except of course if you can manage to have a barn pay for your kid to do
the big eq and then get the ncaa to pay for their school. Aren’t those the winners?[/QUOTE]

And this happens how often? Sounds to me like winning the lottery twice.

Seriously, are there really kids who do the big eq competitively where the barn pays rather than the family? If so, I’m guessing that these kids are offspring/close connections of people who are in a position to provide something of comparable value to “the barn” in return.

Also seriously, as has been mentioned several times on this thread, there are very few full scholarships offered in “non-money” sports like equestrian. In almost all cases, the prospective student athlete has to be able to pull in additional scholarships for it to be a full ride.

[leyla25]

[QUOTE=PonyPenny;7820947]
So much misinformation. If anyone would like specific information about NCAA equestrian, from my daughter’s experience, please pm me.[/QUOTE]

Exactly I have no idea about all this misinformation. I suppose it could be all jealous people stirring the pot.

[Tha_Ridge]

[QUOTE=PonyPenny;7820947]
So much misinformation. If anyone would like specific information about NCAA equestrian, from my daughter’s experience, please pm me.[/QUOTE]

As a former NCAA equestrian athlete (not the parent/cousin/stepmother’s second cousin of one) who was on a 100 percent scholarship, I’m also happy to share my experience via PM to anyone interested.

Also, on my team at the time, you had to buy your team coat, show shirts, etc., and the rest of your show clothes. Obviously no one’s experience is identical.

In a nutshell: if I could do it all over again, I wouldn’t. Is it worth making it a goal? No. Are you better off riding on your own given the chance? Absolutely. Should it be an NCAA sport? Debatable, don’t really care. Are equestrian athletes generally smarter than other sports? Absolutely.

[hype]

Here’s my take on NCAA athletics.

It’s a business and a big business at that. Football makes the money (basketball contributes at some schools but football still contributes the lionshare) and subsidizes the remaining sports.

Decisions are made with business in mind. A student will be recruited, with see playing time with the expectation that they will help win. If they don’t then they won’t play. This also holds true for sports and their place in the Athletic Department’s budget.

NCAA equestrian was brought forth for a few reasons. First of all, it is primarily a female sport and the equestrian athletes generally have a fairly high GPA and graduate. NCAA tracks things like this.

If the athletic department can find another sport which make sense from a cost standpoint and has the same amount of scholarships then it will not continue its sponsorship of Equestrian athletes. Rowing uses 20 scholarships and is about $200,000 less per year on the athletic budget. If a school has water nearby it’s an easy decision.

Here is a link to a great source of information. http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA-WSI.pdf

It details what each sport costs on an average basis for the various NCAA divisions, gives graduation rates, revenues, diversity etc.

It will be interesting to see what the Athletic Directors decide going forward in regards to NCAA Equestrian.

[Spotted_Pony]

The cost of an Equestrian program is actually one of the pluses. It offsets the amount of $$ that is put into boy’s sports with the added benefit of high grade point averages and graduation rates.
My DD is a recent graduate that was on a partial scholarship. She was able to get academic scholarships and other industry grants to pay for her education. Could we have paid for her education if we had not spent the money in horses and showing? Probably. But we also could have had a kid who had not had a sport to keep her time occupied for her entire school years. She was never sidetracked from her goal to ride on a team.
She was not from a big program, did not have a $$$ horse. She won her share and even against some girls who finished in the top ten at Finals. By virtue if a good work ethic she earned her spot. She competed at 99% of her teams competitions and earned her point about 75% of the time. The comrade tie of the team was a great experience. She would not have changed any of it.
It will be very disappointing to see the sport go away. I have written my letter to the committee and anyone else so inclined (only if you support keeping the sport lol) should write.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=FlyingColorsHJ;7808069]
Washington and Lee University’s IHSA team is a varsity sports team.

I’m a proud alumna from the days before W&L had a riding team at all![/QUOTE]

We had a team, but we were a club sport at the time. You really can’t find a prettier campus, either…just saying.