Need advice-painful for farrier

[ValleyGator]

Long time lurker here… Bit of backstory first, I appreciate if anyone takes the time to read. I made the mistake of falling in love with a beautiful horse and bought her without a vet check since she was a low purchase price. I have had the horse 1.5 years and she has never really been sound to ride. She is pasture sound and loves to canter out with her friends.

”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹The seller used a bar shoe on her for “soft soles”. When I had a lameness exam performed later on it turns out she has navicular changes and coffin bone arthritis. She is only 10 years old. She is fine for me to handle on the ground and pick her feet.

This horse is a disaster for the farrier. She violently pulls back during shoeing and strikes out. The only farrier that will touch her is a young man who enjoys a challenge, but I sense even he is running out of patience. I have a bruise on my thigh from her hitting me while holding her last time.

I normally give her Dormosedan paste, but it is starting to lose effect. I don’t know if heavier sedation would allow her to maintain her balance to stand for the farrier. I know she is painful.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Any advice? I don’t know how much longer this can continue and am afraid someone will get injured. I am honestly considering euthanasia.

[cnd8]

Arrange for vet to be there with farrier a couple of times to administer IV dose of sedation. Horse will improve and not need it forever.

[Redlei44]

Can you clarify what she finds painful? The leg being held up, standing on three legs, pounding in nails, etc?

You can talk to the vet you get the dorm from and ask about upping the dose.

What, if anything, are you doing for pain management, on an everyday basis and especially right before she gets shod? Ask your vet about analgesics for this situation.

Euthanasia is a valid option, if she can no longer be cared for without pain for her and danger for you and your service providers.

[ValleyGator]

@Redlei44

Can you clarify what she finds painful? The leg being held up, standing on three legs, pounding in nails, etc?..

What, if anything, are you doing for pain management, on an everyday basis and especially right before she gets shod? Ask your vet about analgesics for this situation.

Thanks for the reply. She is worst when the affected leg is down and the opposite front leg is being worked on. She also doesn’t like the bad leg being pulled forward to put on the stand.

I give Bute the day before and day of the farrier. The vet says I can give bute 6 days out of the week but I don’t feel the horse needs it given the way she gallops around the field.

[Redlei44]

@ValleyGator

Thanks for the reply. She is worst when the affected leg is down and the opposite front leg is being worked on. She also doesn’t like the bad leg being pulled forward to put on the stand.

I give Bute the day before and day of the farrier. The vet says I can give bute 6 days out of the week but I don’t feel the horse needs it given the way she gallops around the field.

Gotcha.

Sounds like she’s telling you that while she may be comfortable enough in the field, she is in too much pain to stand for the farrier. (Galloping around the field probably doesn’t make her feet feel better either.) I believe the “loading dose” period for bute is around 5 days, so you may be doing her and your farrier a disservice by sticking to just the day before. Give it a try - better to treat the pain first if you can instead of sedating more or trying to force her to behave.

You might consider Previcox/Equioxx if you’re concerned about side effects of bute. I assume you, the vet, and the farrier are all on the same page regarding your short and long term goals with her?

[wildlifer]

My horse who has some navicular bone degradation due to an old ddft injury also doesn’t like his foot being pulled far forward suddenly - bc they compensate for sore feet, the shoulder gets sore. Keeping that leg lower helps.

Remember to also give lots of breaks when asking her to stand on sore foot, don’t need to do it all at once.

I agree with trying a longer course of Bute - IMO if you are considering euth (nothing wrong with that), it’s pretty much a no-lose situation. Horses that tend to get violent often do so in anticipation of pain associated with an experience, so at this point it’s likely that she is reacting even before feeling any pain bc that is what she expects. She can only be fairly expected to improve if she has a chance to repeatedly experience it not hurting & not being stressful.
”‹”‹”‹”‹

[J-Lu]

Are you sure your horse is getting the dormosedan under the tongue? How is she to dose? My horse gets it for the farrier because he can yank feet, and I have worked to give the minimal dose, and work hard to make sure it is under the tongue and he doesn’t spit any out. It has to be given on mucus membranes to absorb. This might be difficult for a horse who fusses strongly. My horse has gotten this for a while now (3 years?), and he has not built tolerance to it. Have you dosed her over her weight? It’s apparently very, very safe with a wide safety margin. Could increasing the dose and making sure it is under the tongue help?

[4horses]

Hmm… That is tough. I think either she is in severe pain and not showing it during daily life, or she has learned to fight the farrier or had bad experiences with the farrier. This could be mental rather than physical. How does the farrier respond to her behavior? Does he hit her?

I would ask the vet for a stronger pain medication. Previcox or Aleve. My old mare is on Aleve 12 tablets every other day. Previcox did nothing and bute didn’t work. She has degenerative ligaments in both hinds. The Aleve has really helped her and she was perfect for the farrier the other day. What a good old girl. Without the pain medication she did struggle with the farrier. I almost had her put down last year, but the new medication really helped.

She likes to gallop around too. She may be lame but she never lets that stop her.

You could train your horse to lay down on command and trim her on the ground, if she isn’t one to kick you in the face. My old mare will lay flat out in the field and let you trim. You just push on her neck and she lays flat. But she’s one in a million.

[ValleyGator]

@J-Lu

Are you sure your horse is getting the dormosedan under the tongue? How is she to dose? My horse gets it for the farrier because he can yank feet, and I have worked to give the minimal dose, and work hard to make sure it is under the tongue and he doesn’t spit any out. It has to be given on mucus membranes to absorb. This might be difficult for a horse who fusses strongly. My horse has gotten this for a while now (3 years?), and he has not built tolerance to it. Have you dosed her over her weight? It’s apparently very, very safe with a wide safety margin. Could increasing the dose and making sure it is under the tongue help?

Yes it is hard to get it under the tongue. Most of the time she will actually let me hold her tongue out of the way but last time she was suspicious. I also usually dose her outside so she can keep moving while we’re waiting for the farrier. Do you think nibbling on grass can affect absorption?

I usually give 2.5ml but I have a little room to increase the dose.

[ValleyGator]

@4horses

Hmm… That is tough. I think either she is in severe pain and not showing it during daily life, or she has learned to fight the farrier or had bad experiences with the farrier. This could be mental rather than physical. How does the farrier respond to her behavior? Does he hit her?

I would ask the vet for a stronger pain medication. Previcox or Aleve. My old mare is on Aleve 12 tablets every other day. Previcox did nothing and bute didn’t work. She has degenerative ligaments in both hinds. The Aleve has really helped her and she was perfect for the farrier the other day. What a good old girl. Without the pain medication she did struggle with the farrier. I almost had her put down last year, but the new medication really helped.

She likes to gallop around too. She may be lame but she never lets that stop her.

You could train your horse to lay down on command and trim her on the ground, if she isn’t one to kick you in the face. My old mare will lay flat out in the field and let you trim. You just push on her neck and she lays flat. But she’s one in a million.

I haven’t heard of Aleve. I have considered Previcox or increased days of Bute. I don’t think this horse would lay down on command but your horse sounds amazing! My poor mare loves to roll but it is pitiful as she lays down, groaning like an old man. I suspect she has arthritis in other joints as well.

[ValleyGator]

Also her current farrier is very kind. He has never hit her. But he is relatively inexperienced and SLOW. It takes an hour and a half or 45 mins to do the front shoes and trim the back. But it would be faster if she wasn’t difficult.

[ValleyGator]

I really appreciate all the replies. I have never given up on a horse before. My family’s first horse was usable for the first three years we had her and retired for 15 plus years.

This farrier issue is not the only concern with this mare, of course but it is a big factor.

[Postandrails]

It would most likely help if you provided some cushioning under the hoof which is on the ground. Picking up one hoof puts all the weight on the opposite hoof and will exacerbate any soreness. You could try offering something padded to stand on, finding a sandy area to trim in, taping foam to the hoof (time consuming) or finding an old pair of too large boots with pads (big enough to fit over a shoe). Experiment before the next farrier visit.

It might also be worth posting some pics of the feet. Bless your farrier for being kind and patient and prepared to help, but if he is inexperienced it might be good to get some extra eyes to look at how things are going. If there are improvements that could be made, hopefully we will all be kind and helpful in our comments given the circumstances.

[ValleyGator]

I will try to get photos this weekend. I attached a few of her Radiographs from summer 2018. I need to get some more done soon.

[Obsidian_Fire]

You said she has coffin bone arthritis. Has your vet talked to you about injecting it? That might provide enough pain relief that the farrier work will be less dramatic. Also, while he’s working on the “good” foot, perhaps she should be booted in something soft (like Easy Boot Clouds, or some such) so that the bad foot is better supported?

[ShotenStar]

Does she really need the shoes if she is not in regular work? I have one oldie who has arthritis all through her hind end. She can barely tolerate a hind leg being held for cleaning, much less shoeing. I shifted her to bare foot behind with only an occasional trim to keep things even.

While proper, supportive shoeing can certainly help lots of foot issues, a cost-benefit analysis is always useful: is the ‘cost’, in terms of her pain and potential dangerous struggling, worth the ‘benefit’ of the shoeing?

star

[ValleyGator]

@Obsidian Fire

You said she has coffin bone arthritis. Has your vet talked to you about injecting it? That might provide enough pain relief that the farrier work will be less dramatic. Also, while he’s working on the “good” foot, perhaps she should be booted in something soft (like Easy Boot Clouds, or some such) so that the bad foot is better supported?

I have not tried injecting the coffin joint but I will ask about it. If it is something that only needs to be done once or twice a year it definitely would be worth trying if more pain meds don’t help. Thanks!

[NancyM]

Schedule your vet for the same time as the farrier. With Rompun on board, you can get the feet trimmed. Rompun is not only a tranquilizer, but also has excellent pain killing effect. It doesn’t last that long though, farrier will have a time limit in order to get the work done. Get the most problematical feet done first. This drug is for veterinarian use only.

[ValleyGator]

@ShotenStar

Does she really need the shoes if she is not in regular work? I have one oldie who has arthritis all through her hind end. She can barely tolerate a hind leg being held for cleaning, much less shoeing. I shifted her to bare foot behind with only an occasional trim to keep things even.

While proper, supportive shoeing can certainly help lots of foot issues, a cost-benefit analysis is always useful: is the ‘cost’, in terms of her pain and potential dangerous struggling, worth the ‘benefit’ of the shoeing?

star

I have considered pulling her shoes (it’s on the list of things I would try before Euth.) She is a fly stomper in the summer and prone to abscess. I could try it in the spring just to see. Thanks.

[ValleyGator]

@NancyM

Schedule your vet for the same time as the farrier. With Rompun on board, you can get the feet trimmed. Rompun is not only a tranquilizer, but also has excellent pain killing effect. It doesn’t last that long though, farrier will have a time limit in order to get the work done. Get the most problematical feet done first. This drug is for veterinarian use only.

Thanks for the suggestion. So Rompun would still allow her to be stable on three legs? I’ve only had experience with it for dental work