Need advice with new horse please!!

[kilraineysmom]

Here’s the ad from when he was sold to the re-seller in July:
Hunter trialled. Competed at training shows. Quiet to shoe, box and clip. Has competed at riding club and done cross country runs. Hunted with Edenderry Harriers on numerous occasions for one season. Full brother, Privatised, topped the Monart Eventing Sale

He’s 7 as of June, he was 6 when I got him in April so he’s been under saddle for a bit over 2 years. Agreed that the re-seller did way more than anyone who was looking to build him up and keep him would have done which is why we are really focusing on flat basics and jumping little things (and not many of them!). I would imagine that is the case with a lot of people looking to resell? The ulcers and bucking I think are related based on when he bucks and how but I do agree that he is a smart horse and has probably already figured out that bucking me off is a way for him to run out of the ring and get a few bites of grass… At any rate, I don’t think he’s ruined yet (or anywhere close, he’s actually a great horse 97% of the time :)) but treating the ulcers and dealing with a bucking bronco 3% of the time is not fun and I really appreciate all the advice!!

[vineyridge]

Just out of curiosity, was he sold directly from the breeder to the reseller or was there an owner in between? Because from the ad you posted, his experience doesn’t sound like he was thrown out to pasture for a year after he was backed at four. Someone took him out and about to give him all that experience as a five year old.

[kilraineysmom]

He came directly from a breeder, a stable called Kilrainey Equestrian Centre, sold right after turning 6. He would have had a year at that barn of being ridden theoretically (start of 5th year till he turned 6), though looking at all he did in that year I would guess he really didn’t spend a whole year after backing in a pasture…

[Grasshopper]

I’ll just note that some posters seem to be equating ISH with some Irish Draught blood, and that’s not necessarily true. A lot of ISHs are all Euro warmblood lines, but born in Ireland. Either way OP is working with a nutritionist, but thought I’d mention the distinction so folks can keep that in mind as they’re offering advice.

[enjoytheride]

I know several people that have gone to Ireland and imported horses to the US. They all said that the Irish horses being marketed for export at sale barns were not very broke at all. Despite being shown over some big fences. It sounds like he’s not very broke and he’s stressed from his move.

[bingbingbing]

@kilraineysmom

Thanks all. He’s back on gastrogard for another 30 days, and sucralfate, and changes to his diet. After only 2 days of weaning off the gastrogard (1/2 a tube) he was already more antsy with the saddle and mounting (calm and well behaved once I was on). We are going to go very slow, no jumping, relaxed rides. Hoping to see improvement with the ulcers in the next month!

Can you not just give him a month off for the ulcers to heal? They can be incredibly painful. I really think you would get the most out of your money and time.

I had a horse scoped ulcers. I brought him to the clinic because he absolutely refused to move under saddle. They all react differently. The acid sloshing around when they work can be very painful. The surgeon at my clinic said that trotting was the most painful for horses with ulcers as the acid sloshed back and forth and all over the most. IDK, but I believe riding him will slow the healing process and possibly create more behavioral problems.

I would give the horse the benefit of the doubt that his behavior is pain related until the ulcers are healed. Talk to your vet, but I did a month of gg (no riding) and then a month of ranitidine (very light riding), rescope, no ulcers. I always gg him in stressful situations and had him on an OTC ulcer supplement for a long time.

[Wanderosa]

@bingbingbing

Can you not just give him a month off for the ulcers to heal? They can be incredibly painful. I really think you would get the most out of your money and time.

I had a horse scoped ulcers. I brought him to the clinic because he absolutely refused to move under saddle. They all react differently. The acid sloshing around when they work can be very painful. The surgeon at my clinic said that trotting was the most painful for horses with ulcers as the acid sloshed back and forth and all over the most. IDK, but I believe riding him will slow the healing process and possibly create more behavioral problems.

I would give the horse the benefit of the doubt that his behavior is pain related until the ulcers are healed. Talk to your vet, but I did a month of gg (no riding) and then a month of ranitidine (very light riding), rescope, no ulcers. I always gg him in stressful situations and had him on an OTC ulcer supplement for a long time.

That was my thought, too. I can’t tell from the biting pic if it’s a traditionally Irish Draghty type ISH, although the OP does says it’s a big horse. IME, the larger the horse, the slower they mentally mature. My full blood draft horses went beyond young WB goofiness and stayed a little silly until about 10-12. Then it was like a maturity button got pressed and they started acting basically like humans in horse costumes. Complete with what I think of as human expressions like eye rolling.

OP has spent what I assume to be a ton of $ buying/importing. If it were me, I’d protect that investment and just let him chill out for a month or two while the ulcers heal. He’s young, had a stressful trans-Atlantic trip, and is now in an environment where the people interact with him very differently than he’s used to. And has ulcers to boot. I’d buck if I were him!

[kilraineysmom]

Hi all, he’s quite the mutt Dam and Sire: ISH, grandparents: ISH, ISH, KWPN, Dam not recorded; great grandparents: Westphalian, KWPN, ISH, Dam not recorded (x2), ID, AID (appendix irish draught), not recorded.
Will definitely talk to vet about not riding, he hadn’t mentioned that and I figured light, easy rides might be good but certainly don’t want to add to his stress/lack of healing!

[rockymouse]

What did the nutritionist say about alfalfa and ulcers? We have a gelding that was a competition cutting horse before coming to us, where he became mostly a backyard/leisure ride for our son. His ulcers kept popping up regardless of his non-stressful, easy-going life, full of routine and horse friends. Over time we found that a big handful of alfalfa at each meal really helps keep ulcers at bay. And it’s a true handful, not half a flake or a quarter of a flake - just a whatever fits in my fist. It is such a small amount that it is unlikely to make a horse hotter - for us it’s been a real help, along with making sure he drinks enough.

In your shoes, I might give him a month off, completely off, then bring in a trainer/pro to start him from the beginning, as though he’d never been backed or jumped. I’d suggest lots of groundwork from you. Basically, it looks from my view that the horse needs you to slow way down. You’re clearly invested in his wellbeing. Just take some extra time and the bucking may resolve itself as his confidence and your communication deepens.

[GraceLikeRain]

I’d chuck him out for a week to chill and then spend a few weeks doing some fun groundwork, no intensive lunging, just some handwalking and playing around. It sounds like he arrived in a ton of pain with ulcers. His back is better but his stomach is still a wreck. When you are the one looking at them every day it can be hard to swallow not sitting on a brand new horse for 30 or 45 days. I’m a big believer in putting in the time now rather than later. The last thing you want is for him to develop an association between pain and riding, which leads to a chronic behavior. I’d also ask yourself how good is your trainer. There are some bad trainers, gobs of decent trainers, and very few phenomenal trainers. If your trainer does not have a long background of successfully bringing young event horses through the levels, I’d consider sending him out for a 30-60 day positive restart. He sounds super athletic and smart so he deserves a super tactful ride and someone who can show him that life on this side of the pond is a good time. He is not going to forget how to jump even if you do not trot a crossrail and spent a solid year just doing dressage and conditioning.

[Posting_Trot]

He’s 6, and you’ve had him for three months, and he was only really started when he was 5.

Regardless of what his previous owner(s) did or didn’t do with him, it sounds like, right now, he’s over-faced. Whether the bucking is because of the ulcers, or exuberance, or because he’s somewhat unbalanced as he lands from the fence, it may not matter right now.

I think that Irish Draughts (and I know that that isn’t what he is; that he’s a complicated mix) mature slowly and later than a lot of horses. Many are quite sensitive as well. They also learn very quickly. All this adds up to: take it slow with him. The mistakes you make with him now, he’ll carry with him for quite some time.

I’d give him a couple of weeks off (i.e., no ridden work) while you treat for ulcers; during that time, just do ground work. Hand lead him around; walk him over ground poles as you’re leading him. Take him for walks in the fields or woods, if that’s possible. Walk patterns in the arena; de-sensitize him to tarps.

Then for the first couple of weeks after you start riding again, I’d just do the exact same stuff, but this time while mounted. Ride him on a loose rein, just walk and trot if cantering is too exciting at first.

I would wait to put him in training until after you’ve established a relationship with him. JMHO. Good luck, and have fun.

[kookicat]

Not sure if it’s been said but I’d take him right back to basics. No jumping for at least a month, just lots of hacking if you can do it. Just chill out work so you get to bond. Sounds like you don’t quite trust him and he’s looking for someone to listen to.

Feedwise I’d stick him in the best hay I could find and nothing else. I’d pulled molasses from all of my horse’s feeds and found they’re much better for it.

[Herefordgirl]

I am going through a similar situation with my 5 yr old TB. I haven’t come off but he is shaking my confidence by bucking and rearing. It is an “I know it all and I don’t want to work because my friends are inside phase” I made a few adjustments this week and I have been able to get after him a bit. He has been much better. I feel secure in my saddle but my stirrup pads needed to be replaced. It sounds so simple but it has been really effective to get my heels way down. I also put on a little bit longer spur so I give him a better wake up call and keep him moving forward. Instead of jumping single fences, I set up a grid so he has more to think about. The grid also helped me to gain some confidence back. He is such a nice horse that I want to give him every chance before I decide to sell him. Fortunately, my friend has also agreed to ride him if I need help. He doesn’t have health issues because I have had him checked out by a vet. In my case, I feel that I need to ride him more so he is in a consistent program but he has not done nearly as much as your guy. I hope you have success with your new horse!

[Wanderosa]

@Posting Trot

He’s 6, and you’ve had him for three months, and he was only really started when he was 5.

Regardless of what his previous owner(s) did or didn’t do with him, it sounds like, right now, he’s over-faced. Whether the bucking is because of the ulcers, or exuberance, or because he’s somewhat unbalanced as he lands from the fence, it may not matter right now.

I think that Irish Draughts (and I know that that isn’t what he is; that he’s a complicated mix) mature slowly and later than a lot of horses. Many are quite sensitive as well. They also learn very quickly. All this adds up to: take it slow with him. The mistakes you make with him now, he’ll carry with him for quite some time.

I’d give him a couple of weeks off (i.e., no ridden work) while you treat for ulcers; during that time, just do ground work. Hand lead him around; walk him over ground poles as you’re leading him. Take him for walks in the fields or woods, if that’s possible. Walk patterns in the arena; de-sensitize him to tarps.

Then for the first couple of weeks after you start riding again, I’d just do the exact same stuff, but this time while mounted. Ride him on a loose rein, just walk and trot if cantering is too exciting at first.

I would wait to put him in training until after you’ve established a relationship with him. JMHO. Good luck, and have fun.

Years ago, I read Dr. Klimke’s autobiography. One part that resonated to my daredevil bronco-busting teenaged self was his recollection of the first months after bringing home the young Alereich. (Spelling?) It was so different from how horses were dealt with at the giant riding school I rode at. He only hand walked the horse at first. And then slowly added in ground work and finally light training rides. This was in spite of the fact that the horse had already been backed and was going under saddle. The idea that struck me the most was Dr. Klimke’s belief that the horse understood that Dr. Klimke understood the challenges of being a young horse in a brand new environment and was grateful to him for not embarrassing him by asking too much while his body and mind were recovering from his journey from stud to auction to Dr. Klimke’s. No trainer in my life had ever expressed the belief that the horse might take pride in his work and be anxious to prove himself in a new situation. Not only did Dr. Klimke seem to think just that, he also seemed to believe that there was no reason to push the horse to prove anything to him because he already knew that the horse was “it”. My 16 year old mind was blown!

Now, I’m far from a pro. But I’ve had great results from taking a similar approach to Dr. Klimke’s whenever possible. I’m a nervous rider if I don’t force myself to relax. Getting to know the horse outside of the arena is key for me to relax. I was wrapped around the axle dealing with my leased horse until i made myself hit the reset button. We spent extra time grooming, took hand walks to check out the best grass the farm had to offer, etc. He was able to get a better handle on who I was and I think he now has confidence that while I’m not as skilled a rider as he’s used to, his best interests will always be my primary concern and I’ll always own up to and work to fix my mistakes. Going into the arena at a recent clinic there was a feeling of “we can do this!” from him that was missing the first time we rode a clinic together.

It’s worth a shot. It’s hard to feel adversarial towards the horse when you’ve learned his personality. They most all enjoy the attention, too.

[kilraineysmom]

@Wanderosa that sounds like an amazing book, will have to get a copy! Really enjoying connecting with him without the stress of riding the past few days. I might keep doing light rides just to check in with him on occasion (and because I think he enjoys them- no bucks when we do that!) but agree that giving him time to heal is incredibly important. Thanks all!

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

@kilraineysmom

[USER=“232142”]. I might keep doing light rides just to check in with him on occasion (and because I think he enjoys them- no bucks when we do that!)

I wonder if that might be evidence that his bucks signal he is feeling overwhelmed or anxious when asked to do certain things?

I hope your relationship with him will get better and better and you will enjoy each other more and more as time passes!

[4LeafCloverFarm]

I’m sure I’m not the only one who would love to see a full body shot of the horse in question. hint hint

[bornfreenowexpensive]

It NEVER hurts to hit the reset button. Let him chill for a bit. Get the ulcers healed. Light hacking sounds good too. But then start from scratch when you go to leg him up. Take your time. Work on flat work. Fill the holes he most definitely has in his training by going slowly and in small steps. Work up to poles and single fences. Work correctly but keep it simple. It is NOT a guarantee the bucking will not come back…but if he is in front of your leg and you have put the flat work into him…you should be able to get his focus back. Happy excited bucks are not always a bad thing. My current young horse I’ve learned I cannot not pat him after a jump or I get a squeal and happy lunge/plunge/buck in celebration. Telling him he’s good with a little scratch keeps his celebration less exuberant! Sucking back and trying to plant a rider is different. Hopefully you will reset your relationship and get back on track.

[Wanderosa]

@kilraineysmom

@Wanderosa that sounds like an amazing book, will have to get a copy! Really enjoying connecting with him without the stress of riding the past few days. I might keep doing light rides just to check in with him on occasion (and because I think he enjoys them- no bucks when we do that!) but agree that giving him time to heal is incredibly important. Thanks all!

That’s awesome news! You’re probably very different from the other humans he’s known so far and he’ll surely appreciate being given the time to figure you out. The horse I lease is in his late teens, very well schooled, and quiet for what he is. It just happens that he was ridden up to this point mostly by his owner, a former pro who is practically perfect, and our trainer, who is perfect. I’m fairly decent but I’m no pro and coming off a medical layup to boot. He was definitely thrown off guard our first month together - he just never realized before that there were humans that were less than perfect riders!

I feel like in our situation the extra time spent on the ground helped to reassure him that I know that I don’t know everything. And he won’t get punished for misinterpretations and there will be many times that he knows the answer better than I do. Seems like he gets the difference because while he has occasional wild man episodes when hacking out with his owner he’s never acted that way while I’m riding . (Knock on wood!) He’s starting to take great delight in his new role of schoolmaster. His deadpan dramatic reactions are downright comical.

Your goal with the groundwork is different in your case. More like reassuring the horse that you’re both in this fantastic adventure together and you’re both going to make mistakes but that’s part of the journey. Best of luck! Please post pony pics!!

[Horsegirl_s_Mom]

OMG, he’s adorable! Love the markings and his sweet face.