Need help with a green horse

[GriffandSelene]

@Foxglove

Glad to hear things are working better for you. I don’t barrel race so what I do might not apply. I bought a horse at auction April 27. I contacted all previous owners (you can find anything on the internet!) and had a though knowledge of what training and use the gelding had. Still, he was new to me, a horse, and I’m an old lady. I proceeded cautiously (as you did). We walked, we trotted, and eventually we cantered. After about 6 weeks, of pretty much continual use, he developed sticky feet. I’d saddle, lead to the arena, and mount. At that point he refused to take a step. If I applied pressure --spur or crop --he pinned his ears and did a pretty good imitation of a horse that was going to buck and even did a (really small) buck when really smacked. I tried a few things --lunging before riding --and still the sticky feet continued. Now, if I took him out with other horses, trail riding, he was fine. So I contacted my grand daughter’s trainer who has a million years of experience with horses (western, cow, penning, reining). He had me bring the horse down and watched me ride him. Two things right off. My saddle pad was worn out allowing the pommel to rub the wither at times --but enough the horse was a bit sore --especially if I leaned forward (what I did when I wanted him to go forward). That was the second problem --as a reformed English rider --I was used to leaning forward into transitions --this horse --trained western, found that annoying, especially with his sore withers. AND the big reason I was having a problem –no consistency. Trainer pointed out (after watching me ride) -I appeared to have no plan. He said (and I guess I did know this at one point) --EVERY ride, regardless of what I plan to do, STARTS with a routine for warm up. In my horse’s case, he said after a brief walk to check saddle/tack and make sure everything’s good, immediately start 10m circles with the nose tilted in at the trot. I did so --and it was kick-kick-kick until the trot came and immediately stop kicking–but only as long as horse kept up the trot. Any break in gait got him a kick-kick-kick–not hard kicking, but annoying kicking. When horse relaxed (in my horse’s case, he puts his head down and ears into neutral position --allow him to trot forward in a straight line. Then 10 min circles the other way until he relaxes then straight line. After about 10 min of circles, the straight line developed into a canter. If there is any hint of buck or resistance, back to the trotted circles and try again, the straight line now becoming a canter without resistance. ONLY when there is a smooth transition from trot to canter do we make big (20 m) cantered circles or go down the edge of the arena in a straight line.

What this does is reward the horse for relaxed trotting and cantering by leaving him alone and allowing him to go straight (easier than circles) and punish (make more work) resistance or disobedience with discomfort (small trotted circles). AND since I was a big part of the problem --bought a new saddle pad that makes the saddle fit better, remember to lean back when asking for transitions (sit on my pockets) and give this new-to-me horse a longer time to respond to what I’m asking --I was pretty quick to assume he was resistant when he was confused.

So now, no matter what I’m doing --riding fence, mounted archery practice, trail riding, fox hunting, we start with our trotted circles --sometimes the venue doesn’t allow for a long cantered line --that’s ok --the trotted circles into straight lines reminds the horse of what to expect.

The ironic thing is --I knew about the importance of a routine warm up --but because I’d been riding the same QH for the past 12 years (my old horse) --we’d kind of gotten so used to each other, that I didn’t do it any more --just got on and rode. Yet I distinctly remember when I bought him --15 years ago (he was my daughter’s horse for 2 years), the (same) trainer had him doing a warm up routine. By the time I rode him, either I did it without thinking, or I forgot I did it.

So you might try a 10-15 min warm up routine --same pattern every time --to cure the stopping --right now, she’s being rewarded (with rest) for stopping. Make it unpleasant. If she stops, immediately make a small turn into the fence, and trot her in 5-10 small 10 m circles. Then canter straight. She might figure out pretty quick that stopping SUCKS!

your reasons are very much understandable but not applicable. i really want to know why she was doing what she was doing but her, as you said, sticky feet started right away, not after she would have had time to become sore from a saddle issue. also my saddle isnt even 2 years old and (thankfully) fits her just about perfectly. i do both english and western but i definitly have problems riding too western during english not the other way around!
with the whole make the stopping bad thing, i guess thats kind of what i did. i always do the exact same warm up with her and if she stops she does a few extra small trotting circles that are smaller that our normal ones for warming up ( i guess i made them smaller so she could she that it was extra work) then we pick up right where we left off. i didn’t realize how much that would have been a part of it!

[GriffandSelene]

sorry about quoting the whole thing i dont know how to quote just a part:sigh:

[Foxglove]

You seem to have a good way of going about improving your horse. I have two more thoughts and promise to be brief. First, when she stops you do a few extra small trotting circles --can you make that even more uncomfortable or more of a consequence? With my horse a few trotted circles wouldn’t put a dent in his misbehavior, but nose tilted in, brisk trotted circles with annoying kicking make him realize that the consequence isn’t worth the result. When he did try to buck (or even did buck), the trainer said, “Get after him! Bring his head around and move his FEET!” It is not a gentle 10 m circle at that point, but rather a stern reprimand that is designed to be unpleasant for the horse. And it is repeated immediately if there’s any hint of resistance (my horse telegraphs his buck by pinning his ears, shaking his head, and then dropping his nose --I instigate the harsh response at the first sign of head-shake and continue it until the ears go neutral). The trotted 10 meter circles for warm up are more relaxed and gentler --unless he threatens bucking, then it’s discipline time --now --be aware that THIS WORKS FOR ME and this horse. By buck I don’t mean squealing heels up head down bronco time --he drops his nose and does a cow-hop. But to me (old lady) that is not acceptable. He has never escalated after reprimand, but rather capitulates and gives a “ok you’re the boss” sigh and goes to work. At no time has he bucked after the first 10 min of riding --it’s kind of a test (the trainer thinks) to see if he can get out of working. And clearly, at some point in his past, it worked or he wouldn’t keep doing it --although he’s pretty much quit at this point. Consistently only getting MORE work instead of less when he threatened to buck has changed his way of thinking.

Secondly (and being brief hasn’t worked out well yet) --see if you can find a trainer --I just can’t tell you how wonderful it feels to understand WHY your horse is doing what it’s doing and have a solid plan to correct the behavior. I really thought it was personal --that my new horse “didn’t like me.” The trainer told me clearly, it does not matter --just like a child who (as a toddler) shouts at his mother, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her --he’s just trying to see what he can get away with and what the result will be --if the result is he gets candy --he keeps shouting. If he gets uncomfortable (mother ignores him or turns her back) he stops and tries something else. Eventually he figures out what works and uses that to get what he wants. My horse wants to be comfortable. Every time he does what’s “right” I leave him alone --sit quietly, don’t kick, don’t move my hands. Only when he’s not doing what’s right do I make him uncomfortable. But YOU seem to know all that (as I said, you seem to be doing well with your horse).

Last --my old, solid horse wouldn’t load after loading every time I asked him for over 10 years. I missed a foxhunt. I called the trainer who came over the next day. The horse loaded immediately. And always has since (just as he always had before). I asked the trainer, “Why wouldn’t he load?” The trainer said, “That’s an easy answer. He’s a horse.” The point was --we may never know what causes a behavior. We do our best to find out, but then when we can’t, we simply work to correct the behavior. It’s great to always know the cause --but maybe not possible.