Need ideas for fixing a fencing mess

[Raincityrider]

I recently hired a “reputable” farm fencing contractor to re-fence a three acre field. Instead of pulling out the old cement set H braces as discussed, one of his crew decided to take a shortcut and cut them off at ground level with a chainsaw. They are roughly two feet inside the new fence line and complete nightmare fuel for anything with legs. Fence builder tried to deny they were there, then conceded they cut off a couple, then admitted they cut them all off and will “try” to get them out later. He did acknowledge they are a huge hazard for horses; he fences a lot of horse farms around here and definitely knows better. The contract is written to include “removal and disposal of the old fence” and I haven’t made the final payment but I’m pretty sure they are going to try to walk and leave the plugs in place.

It would have been magnitudes easier to pull these plugs out if the posts were still there but that ship has sailed; the posts are cut completely flush with the concrete. How would you go about removing them? I have a L3901 Kubota with an FEL but I haven’t gotten around to having the bucket hooks welded on. I could try to dig down and wrap a chain around the actual plug but I’m not entirely confident my tractor is large enough to pull them out. Other than that I have a shovel and the fury of a thousand suns. Anyone else have any thoughts on how to fix my freshly fenced and completely unusable pasture? I’m wondering if it’s going to take a backhoe at this point.

[Bluey]

@Raincityrider

I recently hired a “reputable” farm fencing contractor to re-fence a three acre field. Instead of pulling out the old cement set H braces as discussed, one of his crew decided to take a shortcut and cut them off at ground level with a chainsaw. They are roughly two feet inside the new fence line and complete nightmare fuel for anything with legs. Fence builder tried to deny they were there, then conceded they cut off a couple, then admitted they cut them all off and will “try” to get them out later. He did acknowledge they are a huge hazard for horses; he fences a lot of horse farms around here and definitely knows better. The contract is written to include “removal and disposal of the old fence” and I haven’t made the final payment but I’m pretty sure they are going to try to walk and leave the plugs in place.

It would have been magnitudes easier to pull these plugs out if the posts were still there but that ship has sailed; the posts are cut completely flush with the concrete. How would you go about removing them? I have a L3901 Kubota with an FEL but I haven’t gotten around to having the bucket hooks welded on. I could try to dig down and wrap a chain around the actual plug but I’m not entirely confident my tractor is large enough to pull them out. Other than that I have a shovel and the fury of a thousand suns. Anyone else have any thoughts on how to fix my freshly fenced and completely unusable pasture? I’m wondering if it’s going to take a backhoe at this point.

“Can’t fix stupid”.

Best would be a backhoe that can dig and pull them up.

If we have that situation if a post breaks, or comes out and leaves concrete behind, we use the hydraulic post hole driver to dig around it, add a chain lower down and pull from it.
You don’t need hooks, just wrap chain around bucket.
Does sound like your tractor is too small, may not be able to pull those?
Then you have to dig more around them, to loosen them more.

Once you have the plug dug around, if with an auger or by hand, adding water and letting it soak helps pull them out.
I just pulled several and, as dry as we are, they were really stuck and water made it much easier.

[carman_liz]

Ooohhh I have no good ideas except maybe a conc jackhammer to get a good 6inches down destroyed and then fill with soil and manure and some grass seed? Easy fix…less digging and holes settling? @Bluey would probably know if that is even an option lol. Besides that I damned well would not pay them any additional money. They broke their contract and tried to lie about it. Plz say you have them admitting this on txt or email or recorded?

Did you get a copy of their workers comp n general liability ins cert? If so I would make mention to them, "if you are not doing this part of said contract, I will be calling your ins and informing them that if my horse is hurt due to your contract breach I will be filing a claim with them! Then also please have a copy of their business license, I would make sure they knew I would be talking to other farms and cautioning ppl not to use them!

If they do remove the old fence posts they better be filling them back in for you since they did not use the original holes n make sure they mound up the holes a little bit because that dirt will settle. Good luck!

[wsmoak]

Up to you whether you want the fencing company back on your property after this. If you are able and willing to supervise them, then insist that they come back with a backhoe (or several strong guys) and dig out the offending stubs.

Of course that that concrete is there for the express purpose of not letting the post move. So the way to get it out is to dig around it until it’s loose/exposed and then lift or drag it out.

DH suggests to dig around one side of the concrete, then use edge of the tractor bucket to lift/flip it out of the hole. Hopefully it’s not a smooth tube but a craggy mass and there will be something for the edge of the bucket to catch on. (That’s a 37.5 hp tractor if the internet is correct, so it should be fine.)

Another idea… since the post was cut off, can you screw a big eye-bolt into the wood to give you something to hook to? And then remove and screw it into the next one. You don’t need hooks on the tractor bucket, you can wrap a chain around it. I would still dig around and loosen it, I wouldn’t expect that tractor to just lift it out.

None of this is risk free, tractors and chains and large chunks of concrete can do some damage. So insisting that the people who caused this come back and fix it is definitely preferable. IF it doesn’t cost you more than it’s worth to stand out there and supervise them. Because I really would not let them stop by when you’re not there to do ANYTHING at this point.

[clanter]

time to go to YouTube… search A Frame for Post Removal … you might have to dig a little to be able to a wrap a chain or a web tie down around the top of the concrete pier but you should be able to lift the core out vertically… it has to be nearly 100% a vertical pull

The idea of digging down five or six inches then busting it our to that level over time will become exposed again… we have some posts that were cut off about forty years ago then backfilled that are exposed once again

[goodhors]

I would not try doing anything myself, until they refuse to come. Get a FIRM date for removal, plan to be there to supervise, ensure they get ALL stubs out, holes filled. You have partly paid for this service, so don’t back off or finish paying.

If nothing is promised or happens in a timely fashion (a couple weeks, no more), get a lawyer involved. Sometimes just getting the letter from the lawyer will spur them into action! I hate having to deal with this kind of service, shortcutting in an agreement.

Perhaps some temporary electric posts carrying hotwire, hot rope or hot tape, to block off the stubs if you HAVE to use those fields or paddocks now.

Best of luck with a quick settlement.

[lorilu]

If they dont do this to your satisfaction, 1. get a lawyer involved as noted above, 2. File a BBB report 3. File a complaint with your county licensing board 4. File a small claims court suit.

[carman_liz]

Well heck I tried lol. I just thought filling it in and grass taking some good root over it, especially if it is near the new posts so it would not get too much traffic over it would be a quick fix in the meantime if the fence guys did not come back and large equipment was not an option. Good to know it does not work though!

[Raincityrider]

Thanks for all the good input, my suspicions are confirmed that this is not going to be an easy problem to remedy. It sounds like, short of using heavy equipment, there is some very hard labor needed to manually extract these things. I’m pretty sure an entire fence line would do me in. If the builder disappears I might give one a try just to see how it goes but at this point in my life I feel discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to feats of strength.

I want to give the builder the opportunity to make things right and I definitely consider remediation their responsibility but I think I’ll go ahead and call an excavator. My trust is low. Having a quote in hand might motivate the fence builder to honor the contract. If he doesn’t do the work I’m definitely going to look into more official remedies.

Frustratingly, I actually was on the property at the time; the crew had been clearing brush for most of the morning so the chainsaw use didn’t seem suspicious and this particular pasture is out of sight from the house. It wasn’t until I walked the fence line an hour later that I realized they had made a hash out of the entire pasture. Apparently doing something correctly takes time but the wrong thing can happen blazingly fast. I really would just like them gone…the plugs and the contractor.

[Arlomine]

I think a letter/paper trail is the way to go here. I would make reference to the exact verbiage in the contract. I would give them a timeframe in which you expect them to perform a remediation.

I would then state that while reluctant, you’re prepared to pursue proper legal channels to resolve the issue. You appreciate that they have done good work in the community, and would want their reputation to stay intact.

[clanter]

@Raincityrider

and I haven’t made the final payment

Before making that final payment to your contractor, ask for a Release of Lien and Affidavit (or Partial Release of Lien and Affidavit) and lien releases from any supplier they used

[Djones]

I would give him 2 weeks to make it right. And he is not getting another dime until then.

Personally, I think you could get your tractor set up with the bucket/backhoe and it would be stout enough to get them up yourself by digging around them then pulling them out… And not give that jackals another dime, just make him go away. In the meanwhile set up flagging/hot tape to keep horses off them.

[Tarlo_Farm]

Do not pay until they remediate! Lots of good suggestions here. You mention the guy does a lot of work for other farms? Nothing like a little public shaming to light a fire under him. And if that doesn’t work, then an attorney. Keep track of any expense you incur. You can always take him to small claims court.

[eightpondfarm]

If you are new to the area, and if you’re rural, small town, you might consider how much damage a few disgruntled locals can do to YOUR reputation. They could smear your name too…and it’s not always easy to get plumbers/electricians/handymen etc in the best case! So, work with them and try to make it all turn out right…for everybody.

[Ponyboy]

Absolutely go after the fence contractor first, but if you want to do it yourself and are up for buying a new tractor attachment, we have had great luck digging up stumps or all sizes, boulders and cement plugs with this -

https://www.palletforks.com/skid-steers/bucket-and-accessories/extreme-hd-stump-bucket-tree-scoop-v2/124108.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp124108&sc_intid=124108&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4pWuidHh9QIVEZezCh3f-wOAEAQYAyABEgJ_xfD_BwE

[Raincityrider]

I thought I’d share an update. The fence contractor did accept responsibility for and remove the cement plugs but as it turns out that wasn’t the last of my problems with them.

This is rather unbelievable but after they remedied the cement issue they built an entire section of fence using old t posts that were already on the property- posts that they didn’t have permission to use and that were insufficient in height for the no climb. I don’t know if they ran out of posts and thought I wouldn’t notice or what the reasoning might have been. I wish I were making this next part up. The fins of the “borrowed” posts were above ground along this entire length of fencing. Not only another obvious hazard but in our soft winter soil I’m pretty confident I could have pulled up the fence bare handed. They are currently completely rebuilding the fence using the correct materials as specified in the contract. No one is very happy at this juncture.

Takeaways: 1. I must look like I just fell off a turnip wagon. 2. Contracts cannot be too detailed, the contract has been very advantageous to getting the agreed upon fence installed. 3. I failed to thoroughly vet this company and that’s on me. A few positive mentions of this contractor and some glossy photos of nice looking farm fencing convinced me they were competent but the devil is in the details. In the future I will thoroughly check references. 4. I should have pulled up a lawn chair and watched them like a hawk after they initially went off script with the chainsaw. I spot checked mid morning, mid afternoon and before EOD and that wasn’t often enough to catch problems before they became bigger ones. Unfortunately, I didn’t have time to build the fence therefore I didn’t have time to watch them build the fence either. It’s a bit of a no win situation which is why hiring a decent contractor is so important.

To that point, if anyone in the North Willamette valley is planning to fence pasture, PM me for the company and owner name. This has been a complete disaster end to end and it’s not over yet, I would be happy to spare you the same experience.

Also, if anyone in my area knows a farm fencing contractor who does quality work I’d love a referral. My usual guy retired and this new company isn’t welcome back.

[EssexFells]

Such a bummer this has been an ordeal, but let me just say you’ve taught all of COTH a master class in how to assert yourself and get the service/product you paid for. Good on ya

[clanter]

@Raincityrider

2. Contracts cannot be too detailed, the contract has been very advantageous to getting the agreed upon fence installed.

I used to do a lot of government work, more than once it got down to What does the specification book say which was always the project’s bible related to the blueprints and contract. And never ever was wrong as we adhered to the spec book.

The number of times we got into battles was notorious as nearly Every project we worked on was screwed up some were just What in world were they thinking,

The one that just topped the cake was the new air traffic control towers being built from a master set of plans. We were working on towers number five and six that were being built. Everything was OK with my part of the work, nothing wrong, but while I was checking to insure my equipment was connected to standby back power system I noticed that backup system was not connected to any of the control towers cab equipment, you know the place on top of the tower were the actual controllers work.

I pointed out my belief to the general contractor who was responsible for the project who point blank asked me if I was an electrical engineer and if not shut up. I did tell them I was not nor was I pretending to be one but I Can Read Blueprints and please show me how there is a connection between the backup generator and the power panel for top of the tower.

A few days later I was called into The office. Turns out I was correct. The project was put on a stop order for review. Turned out All of the Ten towers being built form this single set of master plans were being built wrong.

What got me four of the towers had been completed and accepted, my question that went unanswered was Who tested the systems and accepted the towers? Never got an answer.

Cost to correct the “issue” was $500,000 per tower

[Libby2563]

@Raincityrider

This is rather unbelievable but after they remedied the cement issue they built an entire section of fence using old t posts that were already on the property- posts that they didn’t have permission to use and that were insufficient in height for the no climb. I don’t know if they ran out of posts and thought I wouldn’t notice or what the reasoning might have been. I wish I were making this next part up. The fins of the “borrowed” posts were above ground along this entire length of fencing. Not only another obvious hazard but in our soft winter soil I’m pretty confident I could have pulled up the fence bare handed.

What the WHAT!? You really can’t make this stuff up. Sorry you are going through this, good on you for holding your ground, and I hope it gets resolved soon!