On the equipak- how long has he been using that? Some horses can’t handle that much pressure. Could that be contributing to lameness?
is he in frog pads or using the equi pack to support frog?
just grasping at ideas for you.
Equipak for frog support. It’s poured under a leather pad. It almost looks like someone poured a hot glue gun all underneath. Definitely agreed it’s too much pressure. When I talked to vet a few days after shoeing he thinks this is contributing to lameness and asked farrier to pull some packing. Farrier suggested doing a “softer” equipak. Has been in shoes/pads for 6 days now. Horse was previously barefoot.
I keep suggesting something different, but everything I suggest is shot down for some reason or another. I think there’s too much pressure with wedge pads and pour in. There has to be another way to support the frog. He was better today though…still taking some lame steps going left but overall better.
My mare struggles with NPA behind and hi/lo syndrome in front. The hardest part was finding a farrier who understood the pathology. The second hardest part was straightening out body soreness caused by bad angles over time.
I tried hard to make barefoot work for this mare, but she just wasn’t comfortable and blew through expensive hoof boots in 24-hour turnout. Couldn’t make casts work because she had zero heel height - the casts would constantly slip off like mule slippers. Glue-ons didn’t work - the amount of glue needed to create a neutral angle created way too much of a wedge-effect. Too much wedge caused serious soreness behind due to a pre-existing fetlock injury.
The golden ticket for my mare was a few cycles in a duo ellipse shoe. It got her off her heels and allowed successful, CORRECT stimulation the back of the hoof without crushing the heel. The Equine Documentalist on Facebook has a few well-written articles explaining the ellipse shoe and the overall impact of NPA on the horse.
Good luck!
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Thank you! I’m glad you found something that worked for your girl! It sounds like a lot of this might be trial and error. I do think I’m on the right path…horse was much sounder today, but still threw in some lame steps. Different farrier is coming tomorrow to address frog support so fingers crossed!
body soreness has played a HUGE part in my guy. Resistance going forward, primarily riding and lunging left. He cannot extend out and locked in left shoulder. Instead of moving out in the trot, he canters short up and down steps. I’m planning to give this horse off a while to let his body catch up for this exact reason. I’ve been giving magnesium which has seemed to help, but I’m hoping to find the right “recipe” for this guy.
Thanks for sharing your experience…I do truly feel better the more I talk to people about this!
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There are frog pads which you can use. Has the farrier ever suggested that? Perhaps similar effect but not painful?
I lived this for three years. I was in the a Bay Area with minimal options and when I moved I found a farrier who does composites, Epona to be exact. For 6 months we were on a 4 week cycle with the farrier and vet in attendance for x-rays. Reversed the NP and my horse is sound. She won’t ever go back in steel. Her confirmation and what she needs with her break over just won’t allow it. We popped a suspensory in wedges and steel, so that was my final straw.
the Eponas allow the farrier to build a lot of support into the package and essentially do light wedging with the glue. Results depend on how much the farrier is interested in the composite technology. For us, the composite shoe allows more setback. My NP issues are not helped by my horses confirmation. She is redone at 5 weeks, but could be done always at 4.
Equipak under a pad always made her lame regardless of the kind. I was skeptical of the Epona package with dental impression material under it, but somehow the web of the shoe base give so much support it’s never been an issue. My horse has heels now and rarely takes an off step. The negative angles have totally reversed and we have lovely sole depth.
That’s originally what the vet wanted, but moving down the Florida the farrier doesn’t want any plastic pads on his feet with the humidity, which I can understand. He did clear with the vet and vet was fine with said leather pads and equipak. Vet did say to come pull some of the packing to elevate the pressure, but farrier said something has to go under leather pad for support. I have suggested many things, but all have reasoning why they won’t work 
Sooo…not sure what else will work! Hopefully this all makes sense!
That makes me very nervous with the suspensory on my guy :no:
Is the horse still in this corrective shoeing? I have read some things about the composite shoe. I am willing to try anything for this horse, if it means he will be and stay sounder, but definitely don’t want to risk another injury as a result of correcting the NPA incorrectly. It kind of scares me how many options there are to fix this. Wish it was a little more black and white LOL!
With all you have said, I would honestly go back to the drawing board with a specialist vet and farrier that can think outside the box a little more. I worry that you have an injury in there besides just NPA. I have never personally had good results with wedges and sole packing … the horse always ends up moving like a wheelbarrow, maybe doesn’t look “lame” but doesn’t look comfortable either.
If he doesn’t otherwise need shoes, you could consider hoof boots with wedge pads as an option (and a trimmer/farrier that is very knowledgeable in using them), with a short trim cycle.
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It does sound like he cannot handle the pressure from the Equipak. Does it cover the entire bottom of the foot or just the back half? He can use DIM (dental impression material) with a leather pad. You don’t need to cover the whole bottom of the foot. The job of the DIM is to support the collateral grooves aka commesures (sp) so the wedge does not add more pressure to the heels and more even distribute the weight across the back of the foot. The walls and bars are not meant to take on the weight of the horse by themselves. the frog and sole have a role in weight bearing as well.
Composites by someone experienced in therapeutic shoeing work very good as well. Here is an example of nice setup.
https://www.daisyhavenfarm.com/blog/modifying-easyshoes-leverage-management
The front half has magic cushion, the back has the equipak. It does seem like pretty hard material though. I do think this is causing quite a bit of pressure and adding to the caudal foot pain. Farrier recommended a “softer” equipak.
Thanks for the read on composite shoes…I was actually just doing some reading after the above post mentioned composite shoes!
Daisy is REALLY good… she has a lot of information on her website.
hey, sorry for taking a bit to get back. Yes, my horse will be in composites, the Eponas, forever. We shoe fairly normally now at 5 weeks. Much less glue wedge. She has been in everything and this is what works.
You know I did have some luck for a long time with a great farrier who did leather pads. We filled the space with a pine tar like filler after we saw how sore she was from equipak. Unfortunately with her confirmation and toe growth she just couldn’t hold it for the long run. The wedges lasted a year and then lameness/suspensory.
there are some phenomenal options out there. If you can find a farrier who is open to it and a vet willing to support it, there is so much science around different options. My composite application was a bit more than just plastic slapped on with glue. There were x-rays, lots of measurements, casting and glue before she graduated to nails. Then a slow evolution to a regular shoeing in the Eponas that are glued and nailed. The hoof growth and remodeling has been phenomenal. I’ve never seen her with heels until we went this route.
Check out Shane Westman’s Facebook page. He is the UC Davis in house farrier. He posts some great info on all kinds of creative shoeing for different cases. He did my girl when she was there last month for Her THO surgery. He is not my regular farrier, but he posts some really educational stuff.
Not all composites are equal. Not all applications are the same. The trim is different and the glue package can be complicated. It’s more than just ordering and having a regular farrier apply them. Honestly, this was a last chance option for my mare. She was looking at a life of lameness and pasture puff status. It worked for us, but we were super dedicated to it. Good luck!
Correct, no pads. This horse has a lot of foot but the angle is off for his bony structure. My farrier said we would try to get him out of wedges but some horses do need to stay in them.
My only horse that had pads for frog support had them due to thin soles, he was a tb with long toe and underrun heels. That horse could only tolerate a certain amount of frog pressure. For example he couldn’t go in heart bar shoes but could go in heart bar pads under his shoes.
Just out of curiosity…has anyone fed any supplements that has helped with this? Such as LaminaSaver or farrier’s formula?
With all the articles that have been shared plus my research I understand diet can have a huge impact. I’ve been trying to read more on any changes I can make to his diet. He is a very easy keeper, is on a ration balancer, but I would not be surprised if he is missing something in his diet.
Any recommendations for any feed changes? Perhaps there is a gap in feeding that I am missing. He’s currently on 1.5 pounds of triple crown ration balancer gold daily. He is also on a magnesium supplement, but that is it.
The best thing you can do is test your hay if at all possible then balance the diet from that… if you can’t there are many quality supplements that can help fill in the holes that are probably there, most notably copper and zinc. TC typically has a nice amino acid profile and is a nice ration balancer.
Farriers Formula is a very popular supplement but unfortunately you would most likely need to feed 2,3x’s the serving to reach the copper and zinc levels you need.
:
Supplements that have a more sufficient level of copper and zinc:
If you like stuff premixed for you
California Trace or Trace Plus https://www.californiatrace.com/
Vermont Blend https://customequinenutrition.com/pr…/vermont-blend
KIS Trace
I was checking out Hay Harmony and that looks pretty nice too.
since you’re already feeding a ration balancer it’s possible that all you need is copper and zinc
This one is already mixed
https://customequinenutrition.com/pr…-free-shipping
or you can buy copper and zinc separately from Uckele, Horsetech and California Trace
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You are WONDERFUL! Thank you 
and to make things just a little more challenging you want to try to stay away from anything that has added iron because more likely than not, they are getting much more iron then they need.
If you can estimate the iron in the diet, that will help you figure out how much copper an zinc you need 
Hi! Fellow NPA (significant) TB owner and having success rehabbing.
It’s likely the packing is too much pressure. And if the frog is prolapsed and being squished between a pad, that’s not comfortable either. Soles and frogs don’t like static pressure, they want pressure and release.
Soft or extra soft dental impression material (DIM) can be more forgiving under pads. As for preventing foot funk under pads, packing or DIM, use a antimicrobial clay called Artimud that’s proven over and over to be effective treatment/preventative.
But what does the phalangeal alignment look like in the rads with the current shoe package? Palmer angle isn’t the entire picture, you need the boney column in alignment as well. I think sometimes that gets missed as we focus so much on the palmer angle. It could be the current shoe package is not achieving optimal alignment AND the packing is too much pressure. If the PA was -1.3 and you add a 3 deg wedge, that’s only a 2.3 degree PA with this shoe package…which is not optimal nor good enough for some horses.
As I’ve gone through this rehab journey I’ve learned that heel height comes from within, and the recipe for success is optimal diet (as mentioned above), correct heel first landings/movement and correct trim. You have to put the back of the foot back to work and build back digital cushion and cannot let the toe get away from you. Just be sure that whatever shoe package is on this horse that the back of the foot be properly supported to actually FIX the issue.
After being less than impressed with my farrier and wedges, I opted to go barefoot and use boots and pads and haven’t looked back! It was quite a foreign concept to me (especially hoof boots!) but I had seen so many success stories I had to try.
Her heel wall angle has increased by 15 degrees in 3 months. I have not gotten new rads to reassess palmar angle. Her feet are growing like crazy because the diet is right and the circulation is not compromised. Her frogs have plumped up a ton.
If you don’t already, you should follow Progressive Equine Services in AUS. https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre/
They are a wealth of knowledge on caudal failure and corrective shoeing. Tons of visual examples to learn from.
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Thanks for all the info! So happy your horse responded well to what you did!!
we got 4 degrees in lift total. 2 in trim and 2 in wedging. Totally agree…packing too hard. He doesn’t have a prolapsed frog, so lucky there! I may go back to barefoot with new farrier, or open to trying something new. Maybe composites??
The structure was not aligned and definitely was part of the correction. I have seen many just look at the NPA, I am glad my vet is so well versed in this and came up with a good game plan going forward. I am very comfortable with his recommendations, it is the farrier I am not. I do think another set of xrays would be beneficial and would like to, but might wait for new farrier to start work, than take them since current farrier will no longer be working on him.
