Negligent or not?

What I sometimes think of is the risk vs. reward calculus. Yes, there are risks, for example, a teen schooling and training young horse under the watchful eye of a competent trainer, but great knowledge rewards.

There’s a potential reward in a competent pro competing or even schooling an upper level eventing horse in bad weather, because that is the nature of the discipline. You can take mitigating steps (helmet, body protector cross-country, making sure the horse is properly shod) though you can’t eliminate risk.

There’s also a learning trajectory in risk calculation. If it’s your first time on a young horse or riding out in the open cross-country, choosing a windy day might not be the best idea, while with a more seasoned horse or rider, it’s less of a risk because they are more equipped to manage any issues.

I’m a weenie, amateur dressage rider with no real competitive goals, so my risk calculus is going to be different than a teenage eventer who does. But that doesn’t mean I can’t try to push myself through a reasonable comfort zone, nor does it mean that every crazy risk the teen might want to take (or be pushed to by a trainer) is worth it.

There is also a trust factor with the trainer. Is the trainer good at reading students and horses? Sometimes this is the hardest thing to assess as a new rider. There are trainers committed to having their experienced students take reasonable risks to learn valuable new skills. There are also trainers who use kids as crash test dummies and bully them to ride horses no one should be riding who isn’t an experienced trainer.

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LOL!! What a wonderful mare! I enjoyed reading about her. Thank you…

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when my daughter had her riding school setup and running one condition was that she was to scholarship a student at least one per season since she was using the farm’s horses at no cost (farm benefited because horses were Very well taken care of by the students)

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There are parents who do the same.

Not many. But they are out there.

They usually have a handy smartass remark if someone expresses concern to them about their knowledge of the risk to their child.

I have to restrain my own smartass remarks and not ask the parents if they have some spare backup kids in storage somewhere, for when they lose this one.

(Also do they have spare toes and feet in junior size in the freezer because their kids are regularly at the barn barefoot. Riding barefoot. All of which they think is natural and good.)

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When I was learning to ride, there was an old veteran show horse in the program who would just save himself all the trouble and canter or walk or halt or whatever gait, as soon as the instructor called it out. There was no time for a beginner to apply aids. Just ride the gait, whatever it was.

So the instructor started spelling out the gait, after explaining to each student that this was so they could learn to apply the aids.

The horse apparently learned to spell, too.

All the beginners wanted that horse in their equitation class. lol

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OP, given the perspective of your past experience with this trainer … is your real concern that High-Risk Trainer is still out there putting children at risk?

If you are, that is another question and a different way forward. But not sure how far your concern is with the situation.

I completely understand that a child who is “back at home” after enduring the consequences of an avoidable riding accident, that somewhat mirrors an experience your own daughter had several years ago, is deeply upsetting. And that you’d like to find a way to keep other children from going through the same thing. Definitely with consequences of that magnitude, someday it could be even worse. Even much worse. That I understand.

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I believe I have read that horseback is the most dangerous sport. If it isn’t number one, it’s definitely close. As a young child, I KNEW I wanted to ride horses. My parents put me in everything else under the sun because my dad was concerned about how risky it is. I eventually wore them down and have now been riding consistently for over 30 years. I have taken my fair share of falls from the time I was a kid through adulthood, I have been bitten, kicked, stepped on, pinned, etc. Heck, I even got a huge welt on my face from getting in the way of a braided tail swatting at a fly that was pretty memorable. This stuff WILL happen, and not just once. Thankfully I (knock on serious wood) have not sustained anything too bad.

I agree with the caution of preaching excessive caution too much. My dad wasn’t awful about it, but it was clear he wasn’t in love with my sport/hobby choice…he still isnt LOL. As a kid, I certainly had a lot less fear and apprehension than I do as an adult, and that confidence I believe helped me get through situations I could have been hurt too. Sometimes you need to make quick decisions. I can think of many cases where I had to rely on my knowledge and skill and act in a spilt second. If my confidence was lacking or I was afraid to make a call, that could have been more detrimental if that makes any sense. There is a fine line to walk with confidence.

As an aside, I marvel at people who get into the horse world as adults. I am too risk averse of a person and had I not done this as a young kid, I don’t know that I would have had the gumption to as an adult and thinking of all the things that could go wrong even if you do everything right.

I will also add that starting with horses young, gave me so many life skills that have served me well in normal life. I am sure all sports to do some extent, but working with a live equine partner in the way we do sets it apart. To me the risk is worth it though as horses seem to be in my DNA.

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Me too. That said, I think a lot of it for them is they don’t know enough to be scared. When you’ve “been there done that”, it’s easier for that adult anxiety/self-preservation to kick in… at least that’s what I have observed since returning to the sport.

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This is very true!!

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Of all the times I’ve been bolted with, spun off, spooked off, gone head first into a jump etc… the one that landed me in an MRI?

The horse tripped, and I came off over her shoulder.

Horses are dangerous. Period.

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These were my last two falls. Scary. When they go down, you don’t have a choice about whether you’re falling or not.

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Yup, and the saddle sort of acts like a catapult so that you hit the ground as if you had rocket boosters on your bum, aiming you at the deck.

I’ve never not immediately gotten up… until that one. I sat and looked at my horse for a good minute, because my whole body felt locked up. Blood pouring from my nose, helmet cracked…

Not a fine moment.

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Had an instructor once who said “If you do this right, it’s no more dangerous than anything else people do. If you do it wrong, you can get seriously injured or killed.”

I think it is the consequences of a mistake that can be so much greater than perhaps in other sports. But it does depend on the sport, and lots of everyday things can put a kid in the hospital. Anything with wheels attached - bicycles, skates, skateboards, etc. Balls, sports with equipment, contact sports. And so on.

When someone does turn up at an emergency room with a horse injury, there is a tendency for it to be more serious on the scale of football injuries, re anecdotal evidence from ER’s.

Maybe the one thing that differentiates horses is that you are working around a large creature with a mind of its own. You must have awareness at all times. You must be cognizant of horse behavior, of how a horse may react.

I find those two things seriously lacking in many younger folk in horses today. They are not educated about horses and have poor situational awareness. And worse, don’t seem to know it. Or even value it. Too many aren’t trying to learn from the experience of others.

Maybe because they figure out their electronics without instruction, on their own? That has shaped their idea of ‘learning’? I don’t know.

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The first time it happened (bad footing), a few years ago, I was shocked - had never seen or experienced in my decades in and out of horses. Probably my “scariest” fall (even worse than the one that sent me to the hospital and led to me eventually quitting for many years) because it was shortly after KB’s similar one and that’s all that I could think of on the way down… and because (like you) I had a bloody nose so couldn’t get right back on and it got in my head.

It happened again a little over a year later, and I was less injured but freaked out about the footing (same arena) and potentially neuro issues. Did all the tests, shortened shoeing cycle, am neurotic about checking the footing. Now my heart goes to my stomach any time a horse so much as puts a foot wrong.

Seriously, tripping and rotational falls are the scariest types of fall to me because you have no control or choices to make, really.

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Sometimes you do everything right and still get hurt and thats not just in horses. That instructor upthread does a disservice to her students stressing that. Installs false confidence nothing can go wrong if rider does everything correctly. Might hurt the confidence of a rider experiencing a Sh*t happens incident if they blame themselves as they have been taught. Seen that.

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Also - as to the original question, the most negligent party in my mind is the parent(s) who allowed the trial to go forward. Personally, I wouldn’t put a child on that young of a horse and also would not proceed with riding with a severe weather alert (or any credible sign of approaching weather).

Last year, I was riding and could see a storm coming from PA. It appeared to be far off in the distance, so I continued and even posted a pic of it through my horse’s ears saying “calm before the storm”… Not 10 minutes later, the wind started to pick up a bit and I hollered to a friend up at the barn whether she thought I should get off. She said yes, and I said (dumbly, in retrospect!) “okay, let me just trot the other way.”

Mare had shaken out her ear balls, so after taking one trip around the arena, I dismounted next to one of the abandoned ear stuffies, ran up my stirrups, and leaned over to pick it up. The moment I stood up, the storm hit. It was like Wizard of Oz - dark sky, air around me seemed almost opaque and brownish, debris swirling, and then the black walnuts came off the trees and hit the metal garage roof by the ring. They sounded like machine gun fire.

Horse lost her marbles, began rearing, cantering circles around me, and invading my space. It took forever to get her back up the hill to barn, with her self-lunging at the end of the reins the entire way, and barnmate and working student were covering eyes and terrified for me. I was pretty terrified myself.

And that storm had no warnings issued…

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add surf board to the list, our son nearly was killed by a board that flipped in a wave then the keel or rudder thing at the rear of the board slammed into his left thigh… happened on a remote Caribbean Island … the island governor had to be awaken to open the island clinic. A vacationing surgeon from Great Britain patched him up while waiting a medivac jet

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Kids I see today have far less individual freedom than I did as a kid…and I get it to a little extent. It seems like it is far more the norm to be overprotective these days than to be, “Sure! Put my kid on this unknown young horse in the middle of a severe weather event. That sounds like a great idea!” :woman_facepalming:

I disagree with this. There is 100% inherent risk with anything, however, some things have more risk to them, horseback riding being an example. The consequences can be certainly be greater, but the level of sheer unpredictability with horses is a big extra. If something goes awry with a 1000 pound flight animal (or herd of them), that really bumps the risk factor up vs your run of the mill high school sport of choice (which of course carry risks, albeit different levels).

I found this list with a quick google search and it does indeed have horseback riding as number 1 out of 37.

Editing to add - looking at some of the statistics, Im not sure how they determined the order of these. Interesting list though!

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Lawn bowls is #3? So weird.

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I’d have guessed American football would be worse!

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