so now he is acting like he is in pain. Started last night. Obviously because he is so young I am sure he is super stressed out.
What other things can cause pain after surgery? Ulcers, colitis?
I can’t do more surgery and I am kicking myself for not knowing that I could have tried other options first. They did tell me about the rolling, but didn’t say it was super successful, which is not what i am reading at all.
[QUOTE=Samotis;3871967]
He is in Arizona at Chaparrels new facility.
Dr. Andrea is the doctor. I use different vets, but they were the closest emergency vet because he was painful when we shipped him.[/QUOTE]
Ah, never mind then. If he was in CO at CSU, I’d tell you that I’ve been unimpressed with the level of care there. I don’t know anything about AZ, though. 
If he is gassy, which would have cause the origional NSE, could explain why he is uncomfy again today.
I have a 16.3h Dutch horse that had NSE, it got better with meds, and lunging- one time. The next spring he colicked again, true torsion now, and went to surgery. Recovered, but colicked and needed surgery again 9 months later. He recovered, but was lame in both hind ankles and is retired in a field, happy.
Just to expand my education on the topic of colic, how to the vets know that it is a case of NSE vs impaction or other type of colic?
I’ve only had one colic surgery experience, and it was due to an impaction, but they didn’t know exactly what it was until the opened him up.
When they do a rectal exam, they can feel if the colon is flipped over the spleen/kidney area- or so they told me.
nephrosplenic entrapment is usually detectable by rectal palpation in skilled hands, and can be detected or confirmed by ultrasound examination if suspected.
surgery was initially the method of treatment in all displacement issues due to experience. however, research has proven that the use of phenylephrine has resulted in successful recovery without needing surgery in many cases, but not all. it depends upon the amount of intestine/food material entrapped and other factors. the use of certain medicines like phenylephrine to shrink the spleen and relax the ligamentous attachment between it and the kidney has only been realized in the past couple of years. all colics are individual cases and seldom does one treatment fit all. recurring colic episodes can be related to the initial surgical episode at times, but not always. many recurring colic episodes may be something like ulcers that flared up during the initial colic episode due to periods of not eating, etc, - or changes in the feed / forages / feeding program and times that followed the surgery. those are just a sample of causes - there are too many variables without knowing specifics and actually seeing the individual horse to make judgment calls.
we have had a horse that has repeated episodes of colic - eventually requiring surgery a couple of years ago. his primary colic is associated with ulcers that do not completely go away with traditional aggressive ulcer therapy. he also has mild cecal impaction issues associated especially with certain types of hay used as forage sources. it is not uncommon for him to colic a couple of times each year. he usually responds to pain meds and mineral oil with i.v. fluids in the more severe cases. having had surgery and successfully recovering has not eliminated his cases of colic. the best therapy for him has been very strict dietary management along with ulcer control to minimize the attacks and hopefully lessen their severity. the very basics of fundamental nutrition are critical in his case. few people seem to understand fundamental equine nutrition and health care much anymore - far too much chasing of the new fads in feeds and supplements, etc that will make your horse the next champion.
I had a 3yo very sweet, starved QH that was given to me. This was his type of colic. He had two surgeries for it, with many, many smaller episodes in between. I don’t know if it had anything to do with him being starved or not. We tried dietary changes in case certain things were making him gassy and leading this to happen. This probably went on for about a year. I could tell you in a heartbeat when he was not feeling good, even though he would still look completely normal, from just watching him so very closely for so long. He was never rolled. And this was a while ago (ten years?) so maybe there are advances now. Also, this was in Idaho.
The third time he did it badly enough we had to put him down, there was just no point in another surgery. It was heartbreaking. I’m sorry you and your horse are going through this.
[QUOTE=MunchkinsMom;3874712]
Just to expand my education on the topic of colic, how to the vets know that it is a case of NSE vs impaction or other type of colic?
I’ve only had one colic surgery experience, and it was due to an impaction, but they didn’t know exactly what it was until the opened him up.[/QUOTE]
We use almost solely ultrasound imaging, not rectal palpation, for diagnosing a NSE. You are unable to visualize the left kidney when a horse has a NSE.
He was not gassy and the vet was even surprised when they opened him up that he wasn’t gassy at all.
They did a rectal and ultrasound and new right away it was a NSE. They couldn’t find the kidney and she felt the colon bunched up in a weird place on the rectal.
He was uncomfortable yesterday with an impaction that they were very confused about. But today he passed manure and has been comfortable all day, so we are hoping everything will go well from here on out!
Ok guys, new to the forum. I found it due to researching nephrosplenic entrapment.
Samotis could you please tell me how your horse is now? We have a horse that is at the vets now, and is not looking good. He is suggesting the op. We have spoken to other vets, some say do it, others say roll her, if it doesn’t work let her go.
It would appear that this is her second bout, she had one 2 years ago, where toxins ended up in her blood stream and affected her heart.
Someone has said that there are usually other problems present. Well the mare has not been agreeable would be the best word, very nappy and throwing herself about in the horsebox. Upon ultrasound, she has 10 eggs waiting to be release from one ovary, which in it’s self would give her pain, and more hormonal when in season.
The vet has said because this is her second bout, it will happen again. There are people here that have had experience - go on guy’s what would you do?
Turn her, hope that works and wait for the next bout?
Have the op - and hope that is a perminant fix.
Or let her go?
She is a totally inoffensive, very beautiful, high maintenance TB, but elite standard Horseball horse, ex racehorse. 10 years old.
I wait and thank you in anticipation to any replies.
So sorry. In my opinion I would for sure at LEAST roll and try it. Then it just depends on your financial situation I suppose. Best of luck, I know it’s so hard.
check pm
check your pm
Do you think she colics coming in heat? I ask because I had a mare years ago who did that, I bred her, all went well, until her first heat after foaling. Colicked violently and died. I had not thought about her foal heat, I couldn’t believe I hadn’t considered it.
We’ve had luck in the past week with 2 cases of nephrosplenics that were resolved with phenylephrine and jogging for 20 min after. One case required 2 treatments back-to-back but resolved. Both went home and no more problems.
I don’t know if we got lucky or what, but I would try that first, then rolling, and then surgery if no resolution.
Ponymom, just got your message, this mare cribs slightly too, but not teeth on wood. Your comments were positive should I decide to go for surgery.
DLee, she has been scanned inside and out and had the rectal examination, it is nephrosplenic.
Just spoke to the vet she is no better. I mentioned the jab, he is going to give her a similar jab now. I am meeting him up there later, and will lunge her. Hopefully he will roll her tonight.
I will keep you all informed. Sorry responses are short but I am obviously very emotional at the mo.
We had a horse (big TB) at vet school do this- they rolled him (and video taped it for all of us to see) and he did great.
The shrinking of the spleen and lunging did not work.
Our option tomorrow is anaesthesia and turning. Unfortunately this is the decision time. We have decided that if the turning doesn’t work. Because to repair her would mean open stomach surgery, 6 months box rest, and quite for a long time after that, we will not be subjecting her to that.
Dolly will be put to sleep.
6 Monthe stall rest? My friend had a young horse with a NSE at 2 yrs. He is now 25 yrs old and strong as an ox. He was hand walking at 3 weeks. Are not most colic surgeries started on supervised turnout soon after sirgery?
If they open her tummy it’s 6 months that’s what my vet has said.
Dinah-do, I will continue to research.
I may ask for the turning to wait another day, it gives me more time to be more informed, and gives nature more time to do her thing - if she chooses to help.
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