Neuro Horse, Maybe?

[lenapesadie]

I feel for you. I’ve not had to take any horses for big diags like you intend, but I had a very sick dog once. Fevers of unidentified origin after a break through parainfluenza infection (dog was vaxxed). Vet went through every test he could think of. Some twice. Then he coordinated with the state vet school. My vet special ordered supplies to run some vet school reccd tests at his clinic to save me some dollars. Still couldn’t figure anything out. At that point, state vet school said bring $3k if you bring dog here and that was if my vet re did some images and tests in his clinic so id have fresh films etc. All of that to say, I imagine taking a horse to a fancy clinic for a big work up and needing all new tests/images would be BIG MONEY and totally understand not being able snap your fingers and make it happen right now.

Fingers crossed you get a good outcome with your horse.

[MsM]

Must be Tufts time. Horse at the stable where I board had reached the end of the help the local vet could provide. This became apparent Sunday. Owner spoke with the vet Monday. I found out today that the horse has an appointment for the second week of April. She is still figuring out logistics.

[middleton.the.grey]

I am sorry if you felt I was going after you, I don’t want anyone on here to feel attacked or directed at negatively in anyway. Overall I think the people commenting “well have you made an appointment yet???” just hit me wrong. I appreciate that they care and I understand but if I come on here and say I have not because of x y z or I did but its not until mid April, either way people are gonna criticize by saying that I didn’t act soon enough to get a quicker appointment or that I am ignoring advice and am never making an appointment. Either way, I know I won’t win so I didn’t bother actually saying anything. I understand where you were coming from with “crickets” and please don’t feel bad about it. I will update when I have a diagnosis or if a diagnostic development happens that switches things up. I think you understand that some commenters have definitely been more forthright with their opinions and there is no way I can explain everything that is involved in this process and a lot of it is best kept private and I know you have been very respectful and I appreciate that a lot! Thanks for remaining involved with the thread, have a good weekend!

[middleton.the.grey]

Logistics are the hardest thing to account for. Inevitably something comes up or plans have to change and it is hard to balance everything. Best of luck with the boarders horse, it is a very not fun or easy process.

[MsM]

Knowing this owner, unless something changes at the Tufts end, it will happen. She is determined that she and the horse will get there and she will find transportation (she doesnt have her own trailer) and a Plan B. I have seen her in action and I believe! Only wish her determination could provide a good outcome, but, sadly, that is very much in question.**

[middleton.the.grey]

I hope her determination pays off as well! It’s so frustrating to try so hard and bend over backwards for a solution and get things in motion for something to let you down and then you have to get everything together again. Its crazy, best of luck to her and her horse!

[Xctrygirl]

Just to add something here.

From the tales of friends that work in vet medicine, they have lists of shippers to help the clients.

They have discussions to help understand ALL the ramifications including but not limited to, what happens, what it costs, how to get to the clinic and when the appt and all the things will take place. Even with many options to offer so not just 1 spot.

Not all of you know this but the vet world has been under overwhelming demand since the beginning of Covid. Theories have been tossed around but not solid reason has been landed on. But vets are seeing an enormous increase.

Em

[NaturallyHappy]

It’s pretty evident where I am the vet world is overwhelmed. Are you able to share theories? My small animal vet feels it as well as my equine vet, but I’ve heard no theories.

[zpsid91]

Increased number of pet owners - we see a lot of new clients/new pets, increased time to watch their pets - when something small pops up they see it and bring their pets in, increased funds (sounds weird) to spend, since no social outings
We’ve added docs and staff during the pandemic (SA vet world)

[NaturallyHappy]

Gosh…I feel silly for not thinking of increased pet owners.

[beowulf]

@Xctrygirl

Not all of you know this but the vet world has been under overwhelming demand since the beginning of Covid. Theories have been tossed around but not sold reason has been landed on. But vets are seeing an enormous increase.

Em

I was noticing this before COVID, so I don’t think COVID is the sole factor.

I have some theories but they are hard and unkind in some ways. If anything, COVID happened to snowball an issue that was already present in the field on the fringes. COVID brought it front and center.

Fewer people are becoming veterinarians because of the enormous roadblocks both financially and mentally - it’s hard being a vet for more reasons than just debt (expect 300k+ in student loans). Fewer people are staying in the field because of the enormous debt, untenable pay, poor work/life balance, and stress. Fewer technicians are staying in the field because they are overwhelmed, overworked, underpaid, and often (but not always) the clinics they work for are short-staffed, offer few to no benefits, are sometimes run poorly or have very poor HR/working conditions. The animal care/sciences industry has been lagging behind many others for decades now in terms of competitive pay, work/life balance, and benefits. Costs to become a veterinarian exceed 300k in school loan/debt and for a fraction of that money you can go for a degree in a science or IT field and be making six figures nearly the moment your foot enters the field door. Vet techs that have been in the industry for decades barely make above minimum wage when the experience required or necessary is often high skill/experience.

All of this drives up the demand of the existing and established veterinarian practices, burdening them with a higher existing client load that is spread across ever increasingly thin resources. Contributing to more burnout, more staff turnover, longer wait times, more scheduling conflicts.

Combine that with what my personal opinion of the matter is outside of what is objective above – people now are better educated about their pets than they were even ten years ago. More people are learning that things their parents were told is okay (like a cat occasionally missing its litter box, or a dog occasionally going off of food) are in fact, sometimes medical emergencies. The overall general knowledge among pet owners is at a higher threshold than it was decades ago.

Then COVID came along – where it showed the world A. most jobs can be done remotely (thus pulling from existing pool of people who would otherwise be fulfilling low rank/file jobs in physically present vet offices), B. more people have more free time to spend pursuing hobbies, some with their pets, leading to a bigger increase in accidents/incidents. C. increased # of household with pets and increased general knowledge about vet care = more time spent at home observing these pets and more time to notice when something is NQR.

It is the same reason barn owners are seeing a staffing crisis too.

[Bending_Line]

Not trying to discourage anyone here, but just got back from a week at a major university hospital with a sudden, very serious neuro issue…No diagnosis, no common sense, poor customer service. Last thing they checked, instead of first, was for EPM and those results (from CSF tap) won’t be back till next week. We did MRI, I authorized every test, no answers…disappointing for sure. It’s not a magic bullet.

[soloudinhere]

My experience with major vet hospitals that are affiliated with a vet school is they are looking for the most obscure things to make it a good teaching case. Bonus points if it can be surgical. A simple explanation rarely teaches anything. Not to say Tufts and NB don’t have very good sporthorse vets, because they do. If I needed a specialty and it existed at either place, I’d go there.

I have had far better luck with Rood & Riddle, which is a large, well funded clinic but not sponsored by a vet school.

This is just my opinion, of course.

[cattywampus]

True that. I’m a veterinarian; husband is imaging software engineer. Oddly, typing 0s and 1s into a computer to make better imaging programs is far more lucrative.

My perception is that society puts more monetary value on things like software vs careers in education/child care/social work/majority of health care, and that irks me no end…granted, veterinary medicine is a vocation for me, and there’s nothing I’d rather do, whereas husband’s job is just that–a job.

[cattywampus]

On the other hand (hoof? Paw?), as a general practitioner, if I refer someone to a specialist or teaching hospital, it’s because I’ve already ruled the usual stuff out, and it’s time to go looking for something weird that needs advanced diagnostics --granted, I’m in a small animal practice,* so can’t speak for equine colleagues.
*Except for the time I got a free goat in need of castration and took him to work so he could be intubated, monitored and receive IV fluids for the procedure… The whole sedate-and-castrate-in-field thing is not in my comfort zone

[vxf111]

how cute is he?

[cattywampus]

On a scale of 1-10? Eleventy-five.

[Ponyplusaninch]

This is probably a tangent for another day, but I’ve likely chatted with your husband or someone your husband knows. That veterinary imaging tech is a freaking goldmine. Racehorses and prized steers make up the ritzy clientele driving the funding and need.

That all said, it is really neat to see how far it’s all come and see it reach the average pupper or pony.

OP I cannot begin to imagine the stress you’re under right now and being told so many different things that go in different directions—and then getting all the scheduling to fall into place.

I do think whoever said to be aware of the university vet hospitals trying to throw a dozen darts at the board at the same time made a great point—you will need to be really in touch with your gut and have a voice in what’s happening if you don’t want to end up with an unmanageable bill insurance won’t cover. Maybe even keep the field vet you like a lot in the loop so that the clinic doesn’t go down any one rabbit hole too far (and takes your wallet too).

I went through something similar albeit it was with a 30 lb corgi and not a 1500 lb horse. I relied on our regular vet to help make a couple calls that made the difference between a $2k bill vs. an $8k bill. And we ultimately did get a clear diagnosis and treatment plan.

Fingers crossed you get an actionable diagnosis soon!

[ThreeWishes]

Right!? On the flip side how heart warming is @cattywampus!? Job well done Doc!

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Yes and No.
I’ve had incredible experiences with Cornell. I had a HORRENDOUS experience with Tufts.
The head of surgery just basically kept horse on pre-surgery protocol for DAYS which resulted in horse dropping significant weight. Horse was kept for 5+ days in ISO barn bc it had watery stool, which was so obviously a result of the heavy amounts of antibiotics trying to kill the infection (and by 5 days, I would think the test results would be back to rule out salmonella… so give me a break)… and the worst part? We had several vet students on new rounds (small animal vets that were doing their first large animal visits) tell us that they loved the horse and that they learned how to WRAP on him. Meanwhile, poor animal was dealing with a foreign body that had pierced and been absorbed into frog, so there was significant concern of infection and/or laminitis on the other leg. I almost blew a gasket when they told me that he was being used as a guinea pig for basic care like wrapping and such… while being so incredibly uncomfortable.
Did I mention they had him stabled next to the slab where they put down horses and next to a loud screaming goat? So his window was basically watching horses die and if he wanted to rest, he got rewarded by Goatty McShouty Pants. Not sure why the goat couldn’t have the window to grim reaper lot since, ya know, it was a goat and couldn’t see out of it… but whatever.
Anyway, we ended up pulling him out of there after a week of just him waiting to take a turn for the worse and the regional vet agreeing to doing his treatments at home. The trainer, the home vet, and myself all made some complaints to chief of hospital about the way horse was treated and how it presented as chop doc just waiting for the chance to open him up and teach away.

Bottom line: Stay on top of the care. Realize that if a surgeon is the head doc in the mix, that you need to ask a lot of questions about why he’s staying in a surgical prep zone and what the next steps are from either route (surgery vs non-surgery) and if it seems like it’s dragging along and horse is insured, just make sure it’s not a science project or school assignment for the students and that he/she really still needs to be under their supervision. Keep in contact with your trusted home vet and if the procedures seem relatively simple, don’t be afraid to appeal to taking them home to do it in the comfort of their own environment.

Just my unsolicited advice from someone that really got the runaround but blended in nicely with the vet students at that time, so probably got more details and info than a typical owner would have been privvy to.