Neurological Issue? Need Help. Gelding with strange behavior that no one has seen

[alisa]

Ah you know, it may have been the exploratory surgery, plus sending multiple samples to pathology, plus other diagnostics we did before the surgery (which would have been inconclusive), and may have also included one or two overnights - all from a specialist at a 24 hour ER clinic. I thought I remember it being explicitly not all-inclusive (i.e., piecemeal), but I could be fuzzy. Either way, the surgery itself was 1) highly invasive, so something to consider if your animal is older, and 2) definitely not in the $700 range Though I don’t remember anyone categorizing it as a small biopsy - I wonder if maybe we had different types/degrees of exploratory surgeries?

But you’re totally right that it could have also included a night or two of ER care (but that by itself would have been ~ $1000 or so, so I’d still lump most of the 6k bill into the diagnostics category).

[skydy]

@TXKing99

Hello. Thanks for the follow up. I contacted Rood & Riddle and they allowed me to send an email with all of Jasper’s info and links to videos. Dr. Reed is very busy, but may be able to look at it on Friday. So grateful that they were open to taking a look. I will post an update when I know more.

Laura

Good luck!
Hopefully you’ll get some answers. Not knowing is its own special kind of hell.

[Paint_Party]

@TXKing99

I will post an update when I know more.

Thanks for checking in. Hoping you get some answers. Please know we’re thinking of you and Jasper!

[TXKing99]

Yes, yes it is.

[TXKing99]

You are so kind. Thank you. This community has been so helpful.

[blob99]

so sorry you are dealing with such a head scratcher. It’s so difficult when we can’t help our animals and don’t know what they need.

Nothing revolutionary to add, but wanted to check to see if you’d tried tracking down his breeders to get more information about how he was when he was younger (did he show any of this behavior?) and when he was gelded and if there were any strange or unusual aspects to the gelding process. I know you said you didn’t have much background on him, but sounds like you know his breeding and it appears he has 2 brands on him? Perhaps one is from his breeder? I don’t know the QH world well, but someone who does might be able to help you find the breeder and get some history. I don’t think it will solve anything, but might help fill in some of the gaps

[jvanrens]

If he’s registered and the OP has his papers, the breeder would be listed on them.

[TXKing99]

Hi.
He is registered and I did attempt to reach out to the breeder but their ranch was for sale at the time and I couldn’t find the owners to reach out to them. He does have a 2nd brand and I was successful in reaching out them. They got him from a sale barn when he was about 5. They sent me a picture of him with their young son holding the lead rope. Said he was a cool horse and had no issues. They branded him but only kept him about a year and off he went to another sale barn. I don’t know why they branded him if they weren’t going to keep him? But maybe that is how things are done?

[starsandsun]

You’re doing the right thing by coming at this by first assessing his comfort. With that in mind, you will make the best decision.

[TXKing99]

Thank you. I am trying to do everything right. I thought I did everything right when I picked him out. I imagined all the things that could go wrong but I couldn’t have imagined an issue that no one has eve come across before. Ugh.
Best case scenario, there is a solution that allows him to be rideable. But I am losing hope. I need to know what he is capable of and whether or not he is in pain. If he has limitations, I need to decide what to do for him/with him. Unfortunately, I don’t have my own land to keep him on as a pasture pet. I don’t know if I can find someone I can trust to take care of him as a companion horse. Trying not to think this far down the road but I also kind of have to, just in case.

[vxf111]

Just take it bit by bit, don’t assume the worst yet!

[starsandsun]

My heart horse is going through some things also. I saw him when he was 6 weeks old and had to make him mine. I waited years and years for him to be ready to ride, and just when he knew his job and I was ready to get my chance to ride, so many things happened. We’ve been struggling for 3 years. So, I know how it feels to be derailed so quickly from a dream. Keep some faith … answers will come.

[TXKing99]

I am so sorry to hear you and your horse are facing challenges too. I had all the plans and then nothing went according to plan. It has definitely taught me to be more patient and flexible, among other things.
I wish you and your horse the very best. Thanks so much for the encouragement.

Laura

[Warmblood1]

I’m really sorry you are going through this. It sounds like you are trying to do everything right by your horse which I very much appreciate.

I’m curious as to what produces this behavior when working him on the ground?

It appears to me that the urination is a pain response or response to a sudden sensation. Are you certain he is producing urine when this occurs? Semen would have a very opaque quality where as urine should be clear.

Even in stallions, this would be very unusual. How sudden the response is after the rider mounting makes me believe this is urine and a response to pressure or pain.

He is certainly uncomfortable, stiff and holding a lot of resistance in the spine and tail when ridden. He does not appear lame in the limbs. He certainly seems like a very good boy who is really trying to be good. He does seem very stoic.

A lesion on the spine would make a great deal of sense to me. The rest is not adding up considering the diagnostics already performed. If neurological, the neuro exam should produce some indication of neurological symptoms. I don’t believe this is a nervous component due to the sudden nature of it and it’s consistency. I think you would also see other manifestations of anxiety. Polyneuritis equi is often progressive, and I believe you would be seeing muscle imbalances, especially in the hind, more pronounced lameness, facial imbalances, and I do not believe the head shyness would have improved over time. Also, horses are often spooky as a pain response, and he may be uncomfortable from grooming because he is simply sensitive or because the same area that produces this response is being triggered.

Are you certain urine is being produced when this occurs?

[TXKing99]

Thanks for your thoughtful response and questions.
During groundwork, he repeated this behavior after working for awhile. The first time it occurred on the ground, a trainer was working with him. He was in a halter and the lead rope was looped over the neck to simulate reins. She was at his side and just walking with him, picking up one “rein” then the other to slowly move him around. He then stopped, tensed up and squirted. Another time I was working with him. That time I was on the mounting block and having him walk in front of me and stop, then walk on and turn and come back and stop. On another occasion we had worked for a bit (and when I say worked, it is probably more mentally challenging vs. physically. I don’t just lunge him in a circle to drive him around me. I got up and sat on the rail and had him walk in front of me, I scratched his back. I put a leg on him and took it off, he was fine, but after that he repeated the behavior.

I really think it is urine, but have not collected it to confirm.
You make a very good point. If it were neuro related, like EPM or PNE, I would probably see more of the common signs. If it is a lesion or a tumor, maybe it is getting bigger and that’s why the issues seem to be advancing? Of course I don’t see him 24/7 in the pasture so I don’t know if he repeats the behavior out there. But when I do seem him out there, he seems fine. I have seen him trotting and cantering with the other horses. He does still seems to be tense.

[Warmblood1]

On a second note, there is such thing as spontaneous ejaculation with horses. It’s usually seen in stallions but some geldings can still produce ejaculate. If you have FB access, reach out to Jos Mottershead. He is an equine reproduction expert and I believe he could give you some valuable insight as to whether or not this could be spontaneous ejaculation by seeing your videos. I am less inclined to believe it is because he is uncomfortable under saddle and when moving, but I think it’s worth ruling out.

[TXKing99]

Thanks!

[TXKing99]

@Warmblood1 - thank you for the suggestion to reach out to Jos Mottershead. I did and he was kind enough to take a look at the video and agreed it was very interesting. I sent him Jasper’s history and he is going to share with some colleagues.
I am overwhelmed by the kindness of this group and the suggestions. Definitely helps me to feel not quite so alone in this journey.

Thank you again for the suggestion. I will keep you posted.

[ThreeWishes]

@TXKing99 I’m a firm believer in manifesting your needs into the universe. You did that. For Jasper. And now you’re getting back. I hope sincerely that your answers are out there. Keep us updated. Best wishes.

[sascha]

@TXKing99

I am overwhelmed by the kindness of this group and the suggestions. Definitely helps me to feel not quite so alone in this journey.

Lots of us don’t have anything useful to add but have been keeping up and wishing you well. Your “squad” is even bigger than you might imagine.

And, maybe I do have something useful (or useless because it’s probably already been discussed with your vet) - could this be some weird manifestation of HYPP? If I were a QH owner, even if I had papers in hand that said N/N, I’d be tempted to test anyway.