The Board of the Holstein Association has advised on the use of Thoroughbred stallions. To expand the range for the breeders who are interested in the use of a thoroughbred, it was decided that the use of Thoroughbred stallions approved at other associations is also possible. This means that interested breeders, by request to the Association in Kiel, can use any on WBFS-level approved thoroughbred stallion.
I suppose they are more interested in eventing breeding than previously.
[QUOTE=Elles;8045839]
http://www.horse-gate-forum.com/showthread.php?73837-Neuregelung-Einsatz-von-Vollbluthengsten-in-Holstein
The Board of the Holstein Association has advised on the use of Thoroughbred stallions. To expand the range for the breeders who are interested in the use of a thoroughbred, it was decided that the use of Thoroughbred stallions approved at other associations is also possible. This means that interested breeders, by request to the Association in Kiel, can use any on WBFS-level approved thoroughbred stallion.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the better eventing stallions and mares with a high TB percentage could also be an interesting outcross for show jumping breeding.
Looking for a broader market?
They just made it easier for those breeders wishing to use a TB Stallion that wasn;t approved by the HV , just like they made it easier for those breeders wishing to use a 1.60 meter competition stallion not approved by the HV.
The rule was that these stallions had to come to Elmshorn to be approved and now they are relying on and working with other registries that have already approved these stallions. One still has to submit an application to the Verband for approval before breeding.
The rule in my opinion was always un-productive to ask a stallion owner to bring the stallion all the way to Elmshorn to run around the indoor for 20 minutes.
Breeders in Holstein have been wanting to add more TB for a long time. Tom Reed did an interview with the manager of the Verband a few years ago. http://www.morningside-stud.com/gpage16.html
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;8046953]
They just made it easier for those breeders wishing to use a TB Stallion that wasn;t approved by the HV , just like they made it easier for those breeders wishing to use a 1.60 meter competition stallion not approved by the HV.
The rule was that these stallions had to come to Elmshorn to be approved and now they are relying on and working with other registries that have already approved these stallions. One still has to submit an application to the Verband for approval before breeding.
The rule in my opinion was always un-productive to ask a stallion owner to bring the stallion all the way to Elmshorn to run around the indoor for 20 minutes.[/QUOTE]
Iām going off on a tangent hereā¦ and Iām speaking in generalitiesā¦ not pointing a finger at Holstein by any means.
I always thought the idea of my registry officials getting an āeyes onā opportunity when approving an outside stallion was a great idea. I thought it was kind of wonderful that the officials would have the gumption to say āVery nice stallion, but flaw āxā is just not something we feel comfortable allowing into the books.ā
But you canāt do that anymore. If the breeders want to use outside stallion X, the verbands had better approve him, or their customers will find a way to do it and go to another registry if necessary, consequences be damned.
FWIW, I donāt have a better answer. if a registry is going to continue to exist, it canāt bleed numbers to other registries forever. Because after a while they donāt come back. I just think itās a shame that the registries canāt really guide the breeders anymoreā¦ they canāt say āNo! Wait! This is NOT a good idea in the long run!ā
Before anyone jumps down my throat, try to remember that I am speaking in general hereā¦ of the past benefit of seeing what stallions you approve in person, and honestly assessing whether or not that stallion, and whatever flaws he may possess, is a good match for the marebase. Itās not just Holstein that is doing this. There is (IMO) an alarming amount of rubber-stamping going on.
Any wayā¦ carry on.
I donāt know about more Tb blood but they are always looking for better Tbās and this is a way to do it. The Holstein culture will probably not have tons of breeders running out to breed their mares to outside stallions but it would be a good way to discover a Tb stallion that, under their normal code of practice, they wouldnāt see offspring of. And I mean with their mare base.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8046997]
Breeders in Holstein have been wanting to add more TB for a long time. Tom Reed did an interview with the manager of the Verband a few years ago. http://www.morningside-stud.com/gpage16.html[/QUOTE]
Registery officials (e.g., Dr. Nissen) have been trying to find and promote the use of the right TB stallion for a long time. True for Holstein as well as the other warmblood registries.
Contrary to your statement, most breeders are reluctant to use a TB stallion. Dr. Nissenās quote from the very article you cited: āIt is important for us and for me to support the thoroughbred influence because we need it. Our breed can only develop in a good and right way for the sport when the breeders take always a little thoroughbred influence in our population. It is necessary. The breeders are critical. They know that it is important but they say, āOK, but my neighbor can do it!āā
And one needs to rememberā¦Dr. Nissen is the loudest voice when using TB Stallions are concerned. The breeders have the ultimate say and they consistently say that generally they donāt need or want them right now.
I think there were only about less than 20 foals born in Holstein last year by TB Stallions.
[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;8047302]
Registery officials (e.g., Dr. Nissen) have been trying to find and promote the use of the right TB stallion for a long time. True for Holstein as well as the other warmblood registries.
Contrary to your statement, most breeders are reluctant to use a TB stallion. Dr. Nissenās quote from the very article you cited: āIt is important for us and for me to support the thoroughbred influence because we need it. Our breed can only develop in a good and right way for the sport when the breeders take always a little thoroughbred influence in our population. It is necessary. The breeders are critical. They know that it is important but they say, āOK, but my neighbor can do it!āā[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I remember that from the article but the breeders are going to have to outcross sometimeā¦ they may choose SF rather than TB to get what they want but they are still going to have to outcross.
The breeders are worried about selling their foals because Europeans have some rather strange ideas about TBsā¦ still doesnāt mean using TBs is a bad idea.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8046997]
Breeders in Holstein have been wanting to add more TB for a long time. Tom Reed did an interview with the manager of the Verband a few years ago. http://www.morningside-stud.com/gpage16.html[/QUOTE]
For quite a few years Holsteiner breeder have NOT wanted to add more TB; in fact across virtually all European warmblood studbooks breeders by and large are using fewer and fewer TB stallions and are breeding fewer and fewer foals sired by TBs. However many studbook officials want breeders to use TB stallions because they are concerned about the population while the breeder is concerned about his or her foal.
Bent Hickory is spot on, as is Bayhawk.
Which goes back to a quote by Dr. Nissen: They [the breeders] know that it is important but they say, āOK, but my neighbor can do it!ā"
Everyone is scared to get off the beaten track, also the riders. The breeders have to get their horses sold to ridersā¦
No , not everyone is scared to get off the beaten track. You guys need to be more involved in the breeding and witness it for yourselves.
When a top WB mare is taken to a TB stallionā¦you will witness what is lost in the foal if you can be honest with yourselves. This is why it is extremely difficult for a breeder to take one of his/her good mares to a TB stallion. You often donāt realize what is gained (if anything) until the next generation or two or three later.
Itās too much of a risk right nowā¦hence the comment of ālet the neighbor do itā.
The world wide warmblood population is a wonderful hybrid at the moment and you can get hybrid vigor by other means than a TB Stallion and not lose near as much , or anything at all.
An example would be the Frenchā¦in the last few years they have bought or leased some of the best Holsteiner Stallions to put on their French motherlines. Canturo , Carthago , Cassini II , Corofino , Contendro , Montender ,Carinjo etc.
I would predict these foals will be a force to be reckoned with in the future.
At least the owner and rider of Danthes H are not afraid:
http://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.globalchampionstour.com/events/2014/hamburg/results/1029/class-10-hamburg-2014-csi3-155m/startlist-pdf/&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=Nsn-VN3gLoqvPKPbgVg&ved=0CCEQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNEnbGs6OTkFPsPodGmGxcn5veXLDg
So all horses by Beau Royale, Cult Hero, Dounba, Esteban , French Buffet, Ghareeb, Hand in Glove, Heraldik, Irish Taxi, Kreator, Likoto, Master Imp, Mayhill, Mister Duc, Mont Royal, Pharaon, Porter Rhodes, Primitive Rising, Roven, Sir Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Sunlight and Township that were / are out of a decent enough dam(line) and were / are really given a good chance at a showjumping career have all been flops?
[QUOTE=Elles;8048386]
At least the owner and rider of Danthes H are not afraid:
http://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.globalchampionstour.com/events/2014/hamburg/results/1029/class-10-hamburg-2014-csi3-155m/startlist-pdf/&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=Nsn-VN3gLoqvPKPbgVg&ved=0CCEQFjAC&usg=AFQjCNEnbGs6OTkFPsPodGmGxcn5veXLDg[/QUOTE]
Even more interesting in that list is Bonaparte AA. Surely he canāt jump. After all heās all Shagya and TB and has a TB motherline.
http://sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10551822
MƤrchenfee: Dark Ronald and Teddy.
