[QUOTE=Elles;8076883]
Why do people on this German forum discuss TB’s if TB’s do not interest breeders and riders at all?
http://www.horse-gate-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?52-Mut-zum-Blut-Edle-Tropfen
Everything on those pages is about bloodhorses. And most of it about bloodhorses in sport, also jumping and dressage.[/QUOTE]
Because they think this forum is for advertising/ promoting their stock than discussing sport horse breeding.
[QUOTE=Elles;8076883]
Why do people on this German forum discuss TB’s if TB’s do not interest breeders and riders at all?
http://www.horse-gate-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?52-Mut-zum-Blut-Edle-Tropfen
Everything on those pages is about bloodhorses. And most of it about bloodhorses in sport, also jumping and dressage.[/QUOTE]
I remember once when I mentioned what TBs could bring to dressage training and Fannie Mae (one of the respondents on that thread and a poster here) replied that we didn’t need horses to do the tests faster. :rolleyes: Which is strange because she has bred F1s. Then she went to England where one of her horses was sold and saw all of these TBs and half TBs doing all sorts of things and that seemed to change her outlook. That was a few years ago, though; I don’t know if the experience stuck with her.
My impression from Fannie Mae was that in Germany TBs are seen as racehorses and that’s pretty much it.
Spruce Meadows is another large course with tons of space and tall jumps. And yet few to no Tb’s in the GP classes.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;8077097]
Spruce Meadows is another large course with tons of space and tall jumps. And yet few to no Tb’s in the GP classes.[/QUOTE]
Yet I have seen at least 1 TB every time I’ve watched the Duke Children’s Classic. Last year the TB Arkansas came in second. He won in 2012. Surely people on here have seen him compete.
http://www.phelpssports.com/viewarticle.php?id=10009787
http://www.vt-summerfestival.com/press_release.php?n=2013jul27press
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8077061]
When’s the last time you walked a show jumping course bayhawk? I’ve probably watched more courses being ridden than you have. And unlike you, I have experience with TBs and have actually ridden them. You don’t have to be a GP jumper rider to figure out that a horse is talented, not if you are riding them over all sorts of jumps. If you watched eventing trainers and courses being ridden you’d know that.
Learn from you and some of the posters here? If I did that I’d think that TBs came from 3 sires and a small band of Arabian mares only. Or that Trakehners never pulled plows, despite photographic evidence to the contrary and the fact that pulling a plow was part of the written standard in testing. :lol: Or that Baloubet du Rouet shouldn’t be used for breeding due to his strange conformation and was a flop as a sire.
The outlook of many of the posters here centers around selling the horses they breed. Often not very interesting or educational. One can learn a lot more by looking at the horses (their pedigrees) of the top competitive breeding horses.
You seem to think your outlook is THE TRUTH. It is not.
Oh, and btw, it’d be nice if you didn’t concoct more lies about me. If you do I will report you.[/QUOTE]
Walked one two weeks ago in Wellington for your information.
Nanna ,nanna boo-boo…I can’t win an argument so I will report you.
You give folks who are trying to do the right things with Tb’s a bad name. I’m sure they just love your representation.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8077102]
Yet I have seen at least 1 TB every time I’ve watched the Duke Children’s Classic. Last year the TB Arkansas came in second. Surely people on here have seen him compete.
http://www.phelpssports.com/viewarticle.php?id=10009787
http://www.vt-summerfestival.com/press_release.php?n=2013jul27press[/QUOTE]
“Duke Childrens classic” ??? This is where you are getting your information ? From a regional show that draws next to no top horses and riders.
Please keep talking !
Bayhawk, what you think you’re winning I don’t know. :lol: You’ve posted lies about me. Or how linking to a successful TB GP jumper or praising the qualities of the TB horse is giving them “a bad name”.
OTOH after reading your posts and the ones of a couple of other Holstein breeders on here I would be leery of checking out Holsteiner breeders in the US. I’m not the only one who has expressed that sentiment on this forum.
Because they want to know everything there is to sport horses: performance, pedigree, breeding, past and present. Because they do not want to ignore and know nothing about TB’s as serious horse people. And often because they consider breeding with a bloodhorse themselves. Or they consider buying a horse with a TB parent.
Some of those people are positive about TB’s and others are a bit less positive. But they are all reading and writing there so all have some sort of interest and incentive to be active on that bloodhorse forum.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8077072]
Why do they do that here?
I remember once when I mentioned what TBs could bring to dressage training and Fannie Mae (one of the respondents on that thread and a poster here) replied that we didn’t need horses to do the tests faster. :rolleyes: Which is strange because she has bred F1s. Then she went to England where one of her horses was sold and saw all of these TBs and half TBs doing all sorts of things and that seemed to change her outlook. That was a few years ago, though; I don’t know if the experience stuck with her.
My impression from Fannie Mae was that in Germany TBs are seen as racehorses and that’s pretty much it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;8077118]
“Duke Childrens classic” ??? This is where you are getting your information ? From a regional show that draws next to no top horses and riders.
Please keep talking ![/QUOTE]
https://www.usef.org/_IFrames/Searches/horseResultsReport.aspx
If you bred a horse with a show record anything like this I’m sure you’d be thrilled. I’d think anyone would. That horse has competed in the $75,000 Upperville Classic, the Grand Prix of Lake Placid, and 2 CSI 4* competitions, among others.
[QUOTE=Cumano;8076194]
It is not mathematics, it is genetic. It is not the % of a specific genes that he has, it is merely a ratio of how often TB individuals appears in his pedigree over 8 or 9 generations. It means nothing. You cross for specific traits, it is not like downloading a plug in.[/QUOTE]
It’s actually both genetic and mathematical. 100% of an individual’s genes come from its ancestors–parents, grandparents, ggrandparents and so on. They can’t come from anywhere else. You can cross for specific traits, but you get everything else too. In Authentic’s case, 72% of his genes come from his TB ancestors. Obviously, the contribution of any one ancestor–regardless of breed/type–decreases with each successive generation. Many warmblood breeders apparently prefer horses in which the TB genetic contribution is spread out over multiple horses several generations back (i.e., decreasing the influence of any one horse), rather than ones with 1 or 2 TBs closer up.
[QUOTE=Elles;8077158]
Because they want to know everything there is to sport horses: performance, pedigree, breeding, past and present. Because they do not want to ignore and know nothing about TB’s as serious horse people. And often because they consider breeding with a bloodhorse themselves. Or they consider buying a horse with a TB parent.
Some of those people are positive about TB’s and others are a bit less positive. But they are all reading and writing there so all have some sort of interest and incentive to be active on that bloodhorse forum.[/QUOTE]
It’s too bad this forum isn’t more like that one.
I can’t read German but should probably go to the effort to use google translate to read it.
(Sorry, I misunderstood the intent of your post the first time I read it.)
Elles I am very happy that you are here sharing your point of view and what you have found in your research about TBs in sport and breeding.
Yes, Elles, thank you for your contributions to this board. It’s interesting and educational to hear about sport horse breeding on your side of the Atlantic.
Well, it is a hobby of mine, researching breeding and bloodlines, so it is not a sacrifice for me :-). But it is nice to hear you appreciate my participation.
A German topic with the title:
The past - to learn for the future??
http://www.horse-gate-forum.com/showthread.php?64598-Die-Vergangenheit-für-die-Zukunft-lernen
Some nice old pictures.
I can’t believe anyone would say today’s TB are not suited to big fences and wide open courses. At the least they must never have seen or read about the Maryland Hunt Cup. Those fences are nearly 1.5m and solid.
God I hate watching that race though, so much I’ve only watched it a few times. Horrible falls from horses jumping at so much speed and getting to the jumps at an awkward spot from just galloping flat-out between jumps. There doesn’t seem to be a set-up for the jumps on the part of the riders. I can’t understand why anyone would want to ride in that race or enter their horse.
[QUOTE=Elles;8077269]
A German topic with the title:
The past - to learn for the future??
http://www.horse-gate-forum.com/showthread.php?64598-Die-Vergangenheit-für-die-Zukunft-lernen
Some nice old pictures.[/QUOTE]
Those pictures are nice!
[QUOTE=zipperfoot;8077187]
It’s actually both genetic and mathematical. 100% of an individual’s genes come from its ancestors–parents, grandparents, ggrandparents and so on. They can’t come from anywhere else. You can cross for specific traits, but you get everything else too. In Authentic’s case, 72% of his genes come from his TB ancestors. Obviously, the contribution of any one ancestor–regardless of breed/type–decreases with each successive generation. Many warmblood breeders apparently prefer horses in which the TB genetic contribution is spread out over multiple horses several generations back (i.e., decreasing the influence of any one horse), rather than ones with 1 or 2 TBs closer up.[/QUOTE]
That is a very simplified version.
Because of recombination, you actually do not know how much genetic info comes from any ancestor except for the parents which is about 50:50.
It is not as simple as each great grandparent donated 1/8th. Therefore to actually say that an animal has a % from any horse in the pedigree is not accurate. You could have 5 animals with the exact same pedigree made up of full siblings and have very different genetics. Especially when you add in that there is a selection process.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;8075915]
Kyzteke, none of what you posted about me is true.
No wonder I have you on ignore. I only looked because tuckaway intimated that you said something nasty (and untrue) and of course you did. Channeling bayhawk now, are you?[/QUOTE]
Actually, it’s all true…if someone cares they can look up the thread. It was regarding linebreeding IIRC and you were holding forth with your expert opinion on how ill-advised it was, and how terrible the outcome would be.
When I presented many, many examples of how it can (and is) used successfully as a breeding tool, you proceeded to expound on how uninformed and ignorant I must be to think such a thing…how could ANYONE possibly disagree with you?
You seemed so firm in your opinion, that I began to push for info on why you felt so confident. Turns out you took some course in biology/genetics in college. But you are not/were not a breeder, you have never ridden competitively at any significant level, nor have you trained a horse to compete at a significant level, nor have you worked or been involved professionally in the horse world.
When I pointed this out in the other thread, you proceeded to trash my stock, both of whom have been evaluated by those with far more credentials than you to be quite nice in quality. Olympic nice? Probably not. But pretty darn nice.
If any of this is untrue, please correct me. It is the internet, so I suppose you could lie, but honor system.
And yes, this IS a public board and everyone DOES have the right to express an opinion. Will not argue about that.
But for someone with no actual, valid experience to back up those opinions, they don’t carry alot of weight. Yet you are incredibly arrogant in your replies and responses to those who DO have some experience & knowledge.
Some of your responses are just flat out rude and belittling.
Like the one on this thread to Jackie Cochren, Bent Hickory and Cumano . I will not defend Bayhawk, as he has shown himself to be quite capable in that regard. ;):eek:
To my mind, this is kind of like some armchair QB telling Tom Brady how he should play the game.
I have my share of bad qualities, but dishonesty is not one of them. So by all means look up that old thread – be my guest. I will not say I can relate the posts word by word, but the gist is there.
[QUOTE=tuckawayfarm;8075759]
To be fair, GAP has stated repeatedly that she did indeed breed her mare once.[/QUOTE]
My apologies. Of course that makes her a breeder.
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