New Farmer Getting into Horse Powered Farming

[TheDBYC]

@Hopefulfarmer

have not farmed before, just a backyard garden. I am planning to market it via the usual social media outlets, but I would hope to barter it for boarding or lowering that cost, or selling to local farmers. I would like to get an antique rake, and bailer if at all possible

Fwiw, there is no such thing as an antique bailer. As far as I know, there’s never been ground-driven technology for them. They just didn’t exist before the advent of PTOs. They do make horse-drawn bailers now; they’re one of those quirky Amish technology workarounds, though. The bailer itself is horse drawn. The actual bailing machine itself is PTO driven. They work, but from what I have heard, you will need a few teams of horses to rotate through because pulling one tires them out quick – closest analogy is you trying to carry a large sheet of plywood from one side with a second person walking out of step with you on the other.

Better off doing what they did pre-bailers - namely putting up stacks of loose hay. I actually used to hand cut hay for our goats with a scythe & rake it into stacks piled on little frames in the field. Then, I just uncovered a new stack as they ate through the previous. However said upthread that farming on a small scale is impossible has obviously never witnessed what a petite American farm woman is capable of when she is sufficiently pissed about a bunch of shyster men trying to rip her off charging big bucks for crappy hay.

An ex-communicated Amishman from then mid-west taught me how to drive. They still put up hay in stacks, but up in their barn haylofts & not on stick platforms like I did. (Seriously. The place looked like something out of The Witch, between the goats & my very 17th century stick hay huts. To say nothing of the fact that I own a scythe, know how to use it, & much prefer it to a weedeater…) To put up hay the Amish way also requires more than one team of horses & several people. A few to rake up the loose hay & haul it in from the field. Then, it is stacked onto a platform hooked to a pulley operated by another team of horses & lifted into the loft. I’m hazy on how they then stack the hay in place. Either humans or maybe a pony team? At any rate, it is an incredible amount of work. Maybe start by using a horse or two to move round bales made by someone else & go from there.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Hopefulfarmer

Are there any other recommendations on beginner crops

What to grow… your county extension agent(s) should be able to help with both what kind of hay as well as what other possible crops you might consider growing based on your soil type and climate.

[Scribbler]

I am unsure how you would sell hay off property if you don’t bale it.

My understanding of haying in the 19th century is that you drive the wagon full of loose dry hay into the barn and then use a pitchfork to toss it up into the loft. Apparently there was a bit of an art to this.

However the 19th century was also prime time for urban horses. So huge amounts of hay would have been coming into the cities for cab, cartage, and carriage horses. Before they made bales, how was it delivered? Did they ship loose hay to city barns in the hay wagons? I suppose you could.

I don’t see how you could market unbailed loose hay today. I can’t think of any barn I know of that could accommodate that.

Loose hay is great on your own property. The stacks in the field would work in a dry climate, as long as your animals did not pull off the covers prematurely! Loose hay in a barn pretty much requires a big open loft. You pitchfork the hay upstairs and all winter you pitch it down from the loft through trap doors into the stalls. It would be impossible to keep it at ground level and carry it around in a wheel barrow like baled hay that comes off in tidy compressed flakes.

As well, OP, think about how much you will need to feed your draft horses. I would expect 20 to 35 lbs a day, maybe more.

So you are looking at up to a ton per month to feed two draft horses. If you pasture them in summer, that is pasture land that you can’t use for hay, and you will need quite a bit of pasture for two giant horses.

I’d suggest taking a careful look at the soil and growing conditions on any land you are considering. Sometimes old farmland has been abandoned and gone back to bush because it was never very profitable to work.

In my metro area, I’m continually fascinated by the huge differences in soil quality, productivity, even rainfall and growing season, within a few miles.

We have wet river bottom pastures that get soggy in winter but are incredibly productive ten months of the year. We have drier pastures on high land that are grazed out and dry by July. Where I live, spring flowers bloom a good 2 weeks later than the expensive oceanfront city property ten miles west. I grew up in a suburb at the foot of mountains and while out riding as a kid could see sun shining ten miles South while I was in a drizzle of black clouds.

Not all areas have such dramatic microclimates, but you do need to pay a lot of attention to them. For instance, you could have a great pasture on riverbottom silt and a hill of gravel and sand right next to it that is much less productive.

[Jealoushe]

Before you even decide on crops have you had the land evaluated and soil sampled? It really depends on the land, wetness, dryness etc on what you will be able to grow. Not to mention the tree roots if present and also if there is shallow rock. If that land has not been used for hay already, well, you are in for a LOT of work to get it ready. Especially using horses.

I’m not trying to be a negative nancy but do you have any idea about fitness etc with plowing horses? They need to be extremely fit and strong to do this work and thus require a good conditioning program beforehand or you will literally kill them or destroy their legs/muscle.

Have you had horses at all? Are you aware of the sheer time/amount of horses and people you need to farm even 20 acres let alone 100? The amish use 10-12 horses and like 30 people to plow 15 acres. Just a thought.

There is a good documentary on Netflix about draft horses. Here is part one on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouYuNB8rc4o

[TheDBYC]

@Hopefulfarmer

actually saw that book on Amazon and it is in my cart as we speak along with, “Draft Horses: An Owner’s Manual”.

I do not have any horses yet, and until I can live on the land full time I figured boarding would be the best option, thoughts? I would call myself a novice when it comes to drafts, but as suggested above, I have been looking at older, experienced horses, including teams being sold together.

A few more quick thoughts:

1. a) Very few boarding barns in my area will take full drafts. They’re hard on buildings, pastures & fences, a 12’ x 12’ stall is only marginally enough space, & easily eat 2 round bales a month each. Work horses typically are handled differently from riding horses. Don’t even bother trying to crosstie them, for example. The problem is that barn staff will try anyway, your 2000 lbs horse will snap the ties just turning his head & knock things over & scare people.

2. b) No boarding barn will allow you to perform draft-powered agriculture on their property. Their liability insurance doesn’t cover it. Many don’t even permit driving. So, you will need to haul your chonky boys out to practice your thing. You will need to haul both at once as established teams are typically too buddy sour to separate. You will need AT LEAST a 3 -horse slant load for this task. Even that is iffy. A 6 horse would be better.

3. The Amish shoe/trim draft horses in stocks. Some English farriers have them, but again, you will have to haul to them or buy stocks of your own. It is theoretically possible, but very rough to retrain a 15yo Amish workhorse to have his feet worked on stockless. Stocks function as a control device, but also to take the weight of the horse off the farrier. Otherwise, we are talking a couple 100 lbs of weight on the farrier’s back, even with a compliant horse. Many physically cannot manage that. Locally, 9 out of 10 farriers will hang up on you when you tell them you have draft horses.

4. For what you want to do, you will need more than 1 team. You will also want what is affectionately termed a “farm chunk” type (Close to 50/50 ratio of body depth to leg length.) In the 15-16.2hh range. You do not want tall, leggy hitch type horses like the Budweiser Clydes that are often 19-21hh. Nor the beast master pulling competition horses that are 17-19hh & mind-bogglingly heavy. You also don’t want those because they are trained to roar forward like a 100 ton locomotive & that is the last thing you want with farm equipment.

These horses are too big to fit antique farm equipment & their height makes for a poor draft angle even on 1modern horse drawn implements. You want something like a Brabant, or a shorter Belgian or Percheron. Punches are technically OK. Imo, the general temperament of the ones I’ve met wasn’t well-suited to novices. Personally, I don’t like Haflingers;
Spawn of Satan personality of a pony combined with the brawn to back it up. Other people seem to love them, tho

A few suggestions:
– Consider buying 1 or 2 singles to start instead of a team. You can quickly learn to handle a single alone. It takes a while to gain the fluency to handle a team by yourself. My ex Amish boss could do it, but keep in mind horses were his primary mode of transport the first 25 years of his life. He also used help on gigs because our insurance required it.

– Start small & inexpensive. There’s a lot you can do with just harness & a singletree. You can pull stumps, drag logs, & move round bales on an old car hood, etc. Just keep in mind that dragging large timber with or without a logging arch is one of the most dangerous horse powered tasks. Jason Rutledge was featured on Axe Men a few years ago. Might check that out. I’ve never seen it but I’m sure the producers made a big dramatic deal out of the possible dangers because it is reality tv.

– Consider non-full-sized alternatives that are easier to handle. Fjord ponies are uh-mazing. (Hard to find & expensive, unfortunately). Great-great grandpa was more likely to have worked Morgans or even Mustangs than a Belgian. (Mules, too. But mules are freaky smart & you’ll get into trouble fast if you aren’t already an experienced mule person.)

And don’t forget about minis! Some people love them because they fit places big horses can’t; like between rows of a truck patch garden, cane fruit arbors, etc. The Amish make mini-sized versions of most every implement. You can get a Pioneer forecart for a mini team & hook a gang reel mower behind & mow the lawn, for example. They can be stubborn little cusses sometimes. However, a crash or runaway while working a team of minis is an inconvenience. A crash or runaway working two 2000 lbs draft horses is more apt to result in death or life-altering injury. And minis live on air & cost practically nothing to feed.

[Hopefulfarmer]

Can you elaborate on Ag Office?

[Scribbler]

It’s a department of state government that advises farmers. You could google your states directory.

[Hopefulfarmer]

Thanks

[Hopefulfarmer]

That is a ton of helpful information, I really appreciate it. Your point about starting small is exactly what I was thinking, whether it is simply cutting grass, or pulling stumps/pulling logs.

[Hopefulfarmer]

I will take a look at that, I think grass mowing would be something I would try first, even if it were an “antique” mower where the mower is offset and the “teeth” move side to side. This is probably a poor description, but best I can do ha.

[TheDBYC]

Yup, a sickle mower. They still make them. Better to buy a new one, too, unless you’re extremely handy & have time on your hands. Many of the antique ones have sat so long that they’re beyond repair.

Do check out the new style gang reel mowers, though. They’re more versatile because, unlike sickles, they hook behind a forecart. Bigger mowing deck, a finishing mower cut. And the blades are covered, so if you have a runaway & fall off the mower, you don’t run the risk being decapitated by the blade

Eta: truck patch veggie gardens are totally doable with horse power alone. There’s a farm in WV that does just that & sells at farm markets. Hybrid power is also good for the environment, too. Maybe you cut & rake hay with horses, bale with tractor, & haul in the bales with horses.

[Bluey]

@Hopefulfarmer

Can you elaborate on Ag Office?

Go to your local USDA Farm Service offices, they will help you with maps of your place and with any questions you have, is free, your taxes at work.
There also will be your Natural Resources office, with even more help for you.

Some of those government programs you may qualify for are even cost-shared, the agency will pay up to 70% of your cost to establish fencing, water, grasses and help with water diversion/conservation practices and all else that may apply to your region.
You may even qualify for some of their beginner farmer loans.

Go pick their brains, ask for relevant maps to your land, they are a gold mine just there for the asking.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Hopefulfarmer

Can you elaborate on Ag Office?

Or check with your County Extension Office. They should have an agricultural agent on staff. I’ll often refer to this individual as an ‘ag agent’.

[luvmyhackney]

Everyone gave awesome answers above with Ag office.

Make sure you post plenty of pictures when you get your operation underway. I’m excited for you.

[Hopefulfarmer]

Tried speaking with them this afternoon, they gave me several numbers for other groups to contact…wish me luck ugh

[Marla_100]

Couple more things to think about:

1. There may be reasons the land you’re looking at buying has been left in woods. Might not be considered good, productive soil. You might be tearing your hair out trying to get crops off it.

2. What you want to do is a long, long term project. Hope you’re young, strong, in great health
   and have great health insurance as you will eventually get injured doing this kind of work, especially if you have no experience.

3. You’re underestimating the knowledge and experience needed to work draft horses. Whole nother ball game. Most farmers I used to know who did this, grew up doing it and learning from
   their family who had years of experience.

4. You say there aren’t other farms in the nearby area. Why is that? Find out. Many early pioneers picked the best land when planning their farms and it was often near river bottoms
   and much of this land is still in production today. Soil type will be the critical factor in which crops you plant and the predicted success of this crop.

5. There will be times you need lots of help if you plan to hay the land. My family did this, with horses, many years ago and we needed lots of help during haying time. We put it up loose in a huge barn and stacked it high. But this was for our personal work horses. Doubt you can sell
   unbaled hay.

6. So much to think about and I understand wanting to do this undertaking. Sounds romantic
   and fun but I wonder if it’s even feasible. Maybe as a side hobby just for the satisfaction of teaching yourself and accomplishing this but not as a moneymaking gig.

[S1969]

@Marla_100

Sounds romantic
and fun but I wonder if it’s even feasible.

I actually know someone that bought two expensive, fairly rare ponies to work in farming. They never got that project off the ground - one reason was that she had no experience with horses, at all. Let alone farming. Or farming with horses. She got hurt early on, and lost confidence. They became big, well-pampered pets, but it was a premature investment, in my opinion.

OP I agree with Marla - If you haven’t already bought this piece of property, I would give it a long 2nd thought. Working with draft horses would be fabulously fun, and even working with smaller ponies on smaller gardens would be awesome.

Buying a huge amount of uncleared land - is going to be a long, hard road. And quite honestly, expensive. If you have another job, it may be unfeasible to clear the land using horses, which means you will need to source that out.

As for profitable, it is unlikely, no matter what the crop. Most small farms are not profitable, even with tractors.

My recommendation would be to save your money and wait for a better piece of property to become available - that does not need clearing. Then I would get a draft pony and learn to drive and pull using a smaller, easier to handler, and likely far less expensive animal. That would be fun. And then reassess.

[Bluey]

My main concern is not the idea of farming with horses, how much fun would that be, but to try to make money at it today, that seems impractical.

[Marla_100]

Yes, as a child, I remember my grandmother constantly fussing at my grandfather to “Be Careful”
every time he went out the door to do something with his drafts. Whether it was letting them out of their stalls or bringing them in, not just working them. Why did she do this? Probably because he had been injured many times doing the farmwork and she knew the dangers of working and taking care of these huge powerful animals ALL ALONE. And since these animals
didn’t work all winter, they were pretty wild in the spring.
I remember watching my grandfather plow a new garden area and the physical strength it took to lift and re-position the plow when they turned for a new row. Very rigorous work.
Also wanted to mention, many old time farmers had a bunch of kids, and brothers and uncles,
to help when help was needed. It’s not a great undertaking if you’re all alone.

[B_and_B]

You can make a living farming with horses, but you are not going on vacation. Nor are you building a fancy house. The horses actually work very well with the small farms that are concentrating on specialty products, using small spaces, they often have a side line in agri/food tourism. In many cases, using the horses is a form of advertisement, combined with ‘low carbon production’, a ready supply of fertilizer, more advertisement (no one takes wedding pictures with tractors!), and a crazy, crazy level of passion.
What you are doing is committing to working 7 days a week, 365 days a year. Small farms can be profitable, but you have to be a very good business person who really thinks outside of the box, aggressively pursues new market opportunities, and specialty products. You are not producing low value, high volume products such as hay or corn. Rather, your horses need to be running the cultivator in your high tunnel between your rows of specialty salad greens (that is an example I’ve seen in person…Fjords were preferred, they didn’t have to duck)