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New FEI rules - Cross-country last

But OverandOnward … if it’s better for everyone in all cases, why does it need to be a rule? Why can’t it just be ‘let the market decide’ and then all CIC will be run that way because it is always completely better for every possible person?

I’m going to go with the heretical suggestion that some HT and CIC are run with show jumping last… because some competitors and some organizers prefer that… for reasons that may not be obvious to the nice people in Europe or even our own two representatives. For example, it may be easier to get jump judge volunteers and/or spectators on Saturdays in some areas. For example, SJ runs faster than cross country and people may have a long drive home that would be better made after SJ.

I won’t wail that it’s The Death Of The Sport As We Know It, only that it’s an unnecessary regulation that does nothing beneficial for anyone. And my philosophy is that when possible, flexibility that meets the conditions of your local area is what is good for the sport.

FEI is already forcing more riders to run CIC instead of HT because of their qualifications. Keep that in mind before you answer me with “then the organizers can just run HT.”

Bellybutton eventing issues:

  • TB’s vs WB’s
  • SJ before or after XC
  • Does scoring make it a dressage test?

Real issue:
Will eventing still be thriving in 10 years? in 20 years? Where will it be?

Real issue:
If the 3-phase sport is thriving in 10 or 20 years, what will the demographics of eventing be?
What has to happen now to make sure that demographic is involved in the future?

The market has decided. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=OverandOnward;7165412]
What I see - it is easier to present this competition format to the public. An organizer can make a better entertainment show for those who come who are not already there as a competitor connection.

The Saturday viewing package of dressage and show jumping offers more to see of your favorite competitors. A reason to come and make a full day of it, wandering the vendor stalls in between watching horses.

The cost savings is significant. The savings on expenses for officials alone is tremendous - fewer nights in the hotel, fewer meals. As has been mentioned, the volunteers and coordination of vols, the office help, the grounds maintenance, the stewards … everything is easier, less costly and more do-able.

A better spectator show at lower cost - friends, this is the future.

Here’s what’s good about it -

  • Preserving horses and riding, and especially eventing, is about moving this sport into the population centers and attracting their attention.
  • The traditional 1950’s format doesn’t fit the way society lives now. A LOT of potential horse owners, eventers and supporters are in the higher-end 'burbs … but the sport has to go to them.
  • The more accessible the sport is to the public, the more future it has.
  • It IS about the horse. The future interest, care and purpose for horses.

If this sport does not become more accessible and easier to enter … folks, it’s going away. Eventually. That means fewer horses as well, less interest in horsemanship. Everyone in eventing can be part of a sustainable future, or part of a dying past. It’s a choice.

The level of horsemanship required by eventing is demanding in the new format, just as it was in the old format. This is a very good thing for encouraging and sustaining horse-centered principals and skills that spread to other horses as well. It is good for horses for eventing to survive.

Eventing is in a fight for its life, even if many participants are so fixated on bellybuttons that they don’t get that. If this sport is going to become a public-viewing, advertiser-attracting sport, as it must to survive … these decisions have to be made. There is no time machine back to the 1950’s. Life doesn’t stay in one place.

Is it the end of the world? NO. It’s the beginning of a great new future. For horses. And riding and eventing. This is truth. :)[/QUOTE]

I see a few major problems with destination FEI events in the US after this change
1-If you’re running a CCI and a CIC at the same event, it’s a lot harder now to run xc on the same day. Even if you do, now you need your SJ volunteers for multiple days.
2-There are longstanding CIC destination events in the US that have significant local non-eventing support. You cannot have xc on Sunday and expect the same level of spectator participation that you would have on Saturday unless you wait until 2pm to start, and even then, you’re going to get people who want to spend Sundays at home with their families. We have a church issue that just doesn’t exist in Europe.
3-Given the dearth of CCI’s in the US, our selectors only have so many chances to see how a horse is going to show jump after cross country. Both the Olympics and the WEG’s are CCIs with SJ after XC.
4-I want a jog after xc at the upper levels. I want the soundness of your horse the day after xc to continue to count. Just because they’re doing it in Europe doesn’t make it better. Haya isn’t concerned about making eventing more popular, she’d rather get rid of it entirely so this isn’t about horse welfare.
5-Owners like victory laps and awards ceremonies. It’s not fair to the horses to keep them around for that after xc.
6-There was no reason to make this mandatory. I see it as the first step toward eliminating CCI’s entirely.

Meh, I don’t like it. Not that anyone cares, LOL. I often still ride SJ after XC at the CHP events and very much like it that way. And I definitely don’t agree that “horsemanship will die!” Horsemanship and horse ownership exists completely independent of eventing and will continue with or without it.

And I don’t really buy the whole spectator thing either – if the XC is now on Sunday, I think they’ll get somewhat fewer people than if it was on Saturday and SJ will attract far fewer spectators on Saturday than the XC ever does, especially since it will not be a “down to the wire” decider.

FEI has used this ZOMG, YOU BETTER DO THIS OR EVENTING WILL DISAPPEAR FOR ALL THE TIMEZ! rhetoric for a while, this just gives me one more reason to dislike them even more (if this is possible). Not that they will care either. But there are a zillion other ways to enjoy, train, and compete horses, including XC or over the coloured sticks than FEI eventing.

[QUOTE=wildlifer;7165437]

FEI has used this ZOMG, YOU BETTER DO THIS OR EVENTING WILL DISAPPEAR FOR ALL THE TIMEZ! rhetoric for a while, this just gives me one more reason to dislike them even more (if this is possible). Not that they will care either. But there are a zillion other ways to enjoy, train, and compete horses, including XC or over the coloured sticks than FEI eventing.[/QUOTE]

Which is why I’m praying they don’t eliminate the P3D from Midsouth… (Especially since I really, really, really want to go in 2014!)

OandO–Have you been drinking the Kool-Aid or what?

[QUOTE=NCRider;7165434]
I see a few major problems with destination FEI events in the US after this change
1-If you’re running a CCI and a CIC at the same event, it’s a lot harder now to run xc on the same day. Even if you do, now you need your SJ volunteers for multiple days.
2-There are longstanding CIC destination events in the US that have significant local non-eventing support. You cannot have xc on Sunday and expect the same level of spectator participation that you would have on Saturday unless you wait until 2pm to start, and even then, you’re going to get people who want to spend Sundays at home with their families. We have a church issue that just doesn’t exist in Europe.
3-Given the dearth of CCI’s in the US, our selectors only have so many chances to see how a horse is going to show jump after cross country. Both the Olympics and the WEG’s are CCIs with SJ after XC.
4-I want a jog after xc at the upper levels. I want the soundness of your horse the day after xc to continue to count. Just because they’re doing it in Europe doesn’t make it better. Haya isn’t concerned about making eventing more popular, she’d rather get rid of it entirely so this isn’t about horse welfare.
5-Owners like victory laps and awards ceremonies. It’s not fair to the horses to keep them around for that after xc.
6-There was no reason to make this mandatory. I see it as the first step toward eliminating CCI’s entirely.[/QUOTE]

In my area, eventing at the entry levels (in many cases, unrecognized) is far more inviting and accessible, not to mention affordable, than either show hunters or pure dressage. Clinics, X-C schools, even “adult camps” not to mention the entire Pony Club curriculum are designed to enable intermediate and up riders on adequately endowed horses to enjoy the sport at the recreational level. I see that part growing, for the very reason that it does NOT require (and is not ABOUT) “Big Money.”

Forget about “public viewing” and “advertising dollars,” that just isn’t going to happen in the USA in any large numbers, beyond the sport’s participants themselves occasionally spectating, almost completely on the Web. TV is dying fast as anything but a lowest-common-denominator medium, anyway.

What’s going to kill eventing, if anything does, is the lack of open land.

The SJ first format makes sense in Europe because their shows are often one day. The format makes sense for a HT to accommodate the entries and the local organizers.

However, making it mandatory is neither helpful to the organizers, who have lost the flexibility, nor better for horses, who are now free of the oversight of a post XC jog.

Further, as has been pointed out, the format is not necessarily beneficial to the sport from an owner/sponsor perspective. Both are better served with the SJ last–ribbon ceremonies, name placement for jumps in an arena (rather than an oxer at the back end of a field where the name may or may not even be displayed) or when affiliated with a horse during an awards ceremony, etc. Nor does the format necessarily benefit spectators. Red Hills, for example, is VERY spectator friendly and has a lot of non-horsey locals coming out and volunteering, watching, etc.–on Saturday.

If you change the sport to suit sponsors and spectators rather than participants, you wind up with something that sort of resembles eventing from a distance. What’s the point of “saving” eventing if what we wind up with isn’t eventing?

My understanding was that the CIC was considered the “short format” because it actually was shorter. When the SF is the SJ first format, what’s to keep the “LF” (which isn’t a true LF) from getting shorter and shorter?

I hope they keep the P3DE as well. I have done a T3DE, and I have to say that it changed the way I rode XC forever (and probably even my SJ). It changed my already bold horse forever. It’s because of the T3DE that I feel that Prelim is within reach (just need a horse!) and doable. It’s because of the T3DE that I understand so much more than I did about conditioning and knowing your horse–even though I groomed for an ULR and helped condition his horses for the LF CCI*** years ago. It’s because of the T3DE that I understand the XC warmup better. I have never understood my horse better on a course (heightened by the 30 minute hold we had 15 seconds before I left the start box).

Not to mention it was just plain fun. I have never had as much fun on a horse as I did that day–all of it (even phase C). If we lose the most fun elements with each change, who cares if we have sponsors? That is why I will continue to support the LF whenever I can–even over a CIC if given the choice. I would rather have more fun and no recognition from the FEI.

OandO… and who says we WANT a huge spectator sport?? Many sports exist and have existed without there being this monster advertising, marketing and spectator base.

As for the market speaking? No it hasn’t… the holier-than-thou powers-that-be have spoken.

Now… back away from the kool-aid… slowly put down the ladle… :wink:

I think OandO already drowned in the punchbowl, hahahha. Me? I’ll just keep on working hard volunteering and supporting my two T3DEs that are within reaching distance. After enough years, maybe I’ll get to ride in them someday. FEI can suck it, ROFL.