The P/T divisions offered around here often have an under-subscription problem, so not sure how we will end up seeing this division offered. Me, personally, I like the P/T option and have done it with the idea that it will help with the transition but I seem to be in the minority around here.
[QUOTE=fanfayre;8878403]
I was just joshin’ ya- I used to live in the GTA too, so know exactly what you have- I’m actually quite jealous. Checkmate was a “looong” drive from Georgetown;)
Here, we HAVE to do stabling, but that’s usually not too $$$, and gas, well, gas… PLUS, living on the island, I have ferry fees both ways :eek:- now you’re talking expensive!!!
If it weren’t for the GTA winters I probably would move back, but after 26 years on the west coast I’ve become far too much of a weather weenie.
I’m sure your close events WILL start to offer the modified :)[/QUOTE]
Checkmate, now you’re going back in time! LOL I would be a weather weenie too, jealous!!
Just an alternate thought, by putting a new solid level in between training and the entry point into FEI, prelim, at least USEA is signally there is a definitive split occurring in the sport. Modified (Prelim lite or Training harsh) then becomes the top of the general population, made up mainly of Ammies and Lower level Pro people (trainers mainly bringing up students and horses). The move up to Prelim then signals more a commitment to continue up beyond and under the flag of the FEI. A way of saying one may be interested at playing professional.
I’m working to move to Training by next year and while there was a time I had interest in Prelim, the current direction of course design had taken it off the table. However, a slight increase in challenge with a reduction in riskier fences could have me consider Modified as the top of my game. If not that, then doing a T3D comes close.
[QUOTE=bambam;8878445]
The P/T divisions offered around here often have an under-subscription problem, so not sure how we will end up seeing this division offered. Me, personally, I like the P/T option and have done it with the idea that it will help with the transition but I seem to be in the minority around here.[/QUOTE]
That’s really why I don’t see this being well received. There are not really many “soft” prelims that I see in Area II. And it is really an individual thing. Some will find the technical issues tough, others dislike big tables…so one course will be soft for one rider and tough for another depending on your horse.
I know others who struggle more with the dressage or the SJ more than xc…so for them the PT or other hybrid divisions don’t help.
While I do think the jump up is hard…I just don’t think the new modified division will really get that many entries to justify holding it.
[QUOTE=bambam;8878445]
The P/T divisions offered around here often have an under-subscription problem, so not sure how we will end up seeing this division offered. Me, personally, I like the P/T option and have done it with the idea that it will help with the transition but I seem to be in the minority around here.[/QUOTE]
I think doing a P/T or 2 is a big help with the move-up. Because I had already done the Prelim dressage and SJ at a couple events, they were NBD at my actual move-up event.
[QUOTE=LadyB;8878197]
Ideally more GTA area is preferred. Those locations are too far and take about 3 hours to go to… not something I can afford for stabling and gas.[/QUOTE]
Too bad…we always have to travel at least 2.5 or 3 hrs here LOL.
We do it the crazy eventer way…drive up and back same day so no staying over 
Trailer share…etc.
I wish more GTA riders would come east…we need the support.
Haha, LadyB, yes a looong time ago!
Checkmate is, ironically given the thread, where I did my 1st Prelim, straight from Training, no modified division. It went GREAT- until I passed through the finish flags (another story for another time…) Plus, we always trailered up and back the same day, sometimes drove up and back the evening before to walk the course, but never stabled over.
Jealoushe, that is our problem, solution (well, not the drive there and back, but the trailer share) and wish here too
I haven’t investigated this enough, but I’m wondering if this would involve the additional USEF fees that Prelim does or not. I’m also curious if it might require the same additional approvals and costs that Prelim requires of organizers.
I’m wondering if some smaller events who have struggled under the rising costs of running recognized events might opt to offer Modified instead of Prelim.
[QUOTE=LadyB;8878382]
Oh I know I’m spoiled, most I do is 2 hours, but since I have that option of multiple events within 2 hours, why make the trip 3+ hours east? Just saying would be nice if it was offered in the GTA area. Again stabling and gas is expensive, if I can keep costs down I can continue to show once a month.[/QUOTE]
Why make the trip? Because they are offering a division you have indicated you would like to try.
I know its a bit further, and costs a bit more but isn’t that a fairly small price to pay for easing your transition to a new level? Your horse, your decisions - but if I thought this sort of division would be of benefit, I would make adjustments to my schedule.
And if the division isn’t busy at the few shows that offer it, why would other events take the plunge? They might anyway, but I suspect the success of the division elsewhere would be factored in, so not going because it isn’t quite as convenient as other events isn’t likely to help the situation.
I like the idea and will support the division where offered.
I’m not a fan of “soft” prelims because those are being used as qualifiers.
And yes, I have survived a few T–>P move-ups in the last 20 years, but if offered, I think this is a better solution than trying to hunt out easy prelims. I think it might also keep T a bit more in check which is a win for all.
[QUOTE=Backstage;8878575]
Why make the trip? Because they are offering a division you have indicated you would like to try.
I know its a bit further, and costs a bit more but isn’t that a fairly small price to pay for easing your transition to a new level? Your horse, your decisions - but if I thought this sort of division would be of benefit, I would make adjustments to my schedule.
And if the division isn’t busy at the few shows that offer it, why would other events take the plunge? They might anyway, but I suspect the success of the division elsewhere would be factored in, so not going because it isn’t quite as convenient as other events isn’t likely to help the situation.[/QUOTE]
There are a decent amount of options around me that have ‘soft’ prelims, so you just go and take it easy and learn and grow.
If I could take the time off work and not lose pay, and not have to pay an arm and a leg for gas and stabling, then it would be worth it, but its not just an over night ordeal… its more than that. Plus running my own farm at home, its not that easy to find back up help to muck.
Everyone has their reasons. Of course it would be nice if its offered in my area, but I’ll just keep on trekking at the softer ones until they become easier then aim for the harder ones.
The thing after reading all of this, our issue isn’t the dressage or show jump, its the cross country. So if its a prelim dressage and sj, and training xc… its pointless to me.
Is anyone worried this new level will eliminate the “soft” prelims and make them all highly technical, max height, etc? We’ve already seen such an increase in the technicality of this level over the past 5-10 years.
[QUOTE=Backstage;8878575]
Why make the trip? Because they are offering a division you have indicated you would like to try.
I know its a bit further, and costs a bit more but isn’t that a fairly small price to pay for easing your transition to a new level? Your horse, your decisions - but if I thought this sort of division would be of benefit, I would make adjustments to my schedule.
And if the division isn’t busy at the few shows that offer it, why would other events take the plunge? They might anyway, but I suspect the success of the division elsewhere would be factored in, so not going because it isn’t quite as convenient as other events isn’t likely to help the situation.[/QUOTE]
Yeah! I really hope they offer again next year because hopefully if my leg holds up I can try it! Still too chicken to upgrade to Prelim these days…it was easier when I was 15 and fearless hahah
Fanfayre - Checkmate was my 2nd Prelim ever when I was 15…it was such a challenging and beautiful course…my old man carted me around like a pro. I sure miss that horse.
WOW, 15, Jealoushe!!!
That’s amazing!! I was 21, but at 15 I couldn’t get around PT, forget even thinking about Prelim.
Checkmate really was beautiful, and for some reason I always did well there.
I think my Prelim days are over, unless my mare’s arthritis doesn’t become any more advanced. Strangely enough, it’s not the x/c that’s our problem, it’s stadium. Maybe if we had modified Entry/PT/T, where we did a T dressage, PT x/c and entry stadium…:D;)
I was considering the purpose last night, and initially didn’t see that much of a difference between the p/t and this modified division.
But, for instance currently I have a sharp 5yo running training who should be ready for Prelim next spring. This modified division gives me an extra padding to expose her to more difficult elements slowly.
In terms of bringing along a young horse for the long run, I think this division can up the difficulty while letting her take things slower.
I think mostly of the level as a training tool to prelim than a level to stay at. Though, I’m sure if enough entries sign up in the begiining to keep the level, than your amateurs and juniors will sign up as well.
[QUOTE=fanfayre;8879825]
Strangely enough, it’s not the x/c that’s our problem, it’s stadium.[/QUOTE]
Me too. I never did a T/P, I just went straight from T to P…now if they had T/P where it was Prelim dressage & x-country but Training stadium then I probably would have done that 
[QUOTE=PaperPony;8878652]
Is anyone worried this new level will eliminate the “soft” prelims and make them all highly technical, max height, etc? We’ve already seen such an increase in the technicality of this level over the past 5-10 years.[/QUOTE]
I view that as a benefit though. “Soft” prelims have been going away for a long time because they are used as FEI qualifiers and need to be up to standard. Similarly, I hope it might help keep training level in check as it has seen a lot of scope creep in the past few years (water-to-water, true vs fake corners, etc.)
[QUOTE=ACountingRider;8879984]I was considering the purpose last night, and initially didn’t see that much of a difference between the p/t and this modified division.
…
In terms of bringing along a young horse for the long run, I think this division can up the difficulty while letting her take things slower.
I think mostly of the level as a training tool to prelim than a level to stay at. Though, I’m sure if enough entries sign up in the begiining to keep the level, than your amateurs and juniors will sign up as well.[/QUOTE]
This is my thought. I’m an ammy I would use it. It seems to me that it would add to the horse’s growth. Say you would otherwise do 6 T before trying P. Whether you did 3 T and 3 modified, or 5 and 1, or 2 and 4, you still will add to the horse’s education before attempting P.
I could even see myself staying at it for a bit, depending on the horse. I’ve owned horses that needed a year of N to process the concept of eventing, then moved up quickly, and others that were initially quick until some homework need was revealed (like maybe my horse seems so easy at N/T and then when I try M I realize I’m going to need to work on straightness before P, or something).
[QUOTE=ACountingRider;8879984]
I was considering the purpose last night, and initially didn’t see that much of a difference between the p/t and this modified division.
But, for instance currently I have a sharp 5yo running training who should be ready for Prelim next spring. This modified division gives me an extra padding to expose her to more difficult elements slowly.
In terms of bringing along a young horse for the long run, I think this division can up the difficulty while letting her take things slower.
I think mostly of the level as a training tool to prelim than a level to stay at. Though, I’m sure if enough entries sign up in the begiining to keep the level, than your amateurs and juniors will sign up as well.[/QUOTE]
The biggest difference is the XC. A T/P is simply Prelim dressage, Prelim SJ, Training XC. There are rarely any fences that are mixed in from the Prelim course on Training XC (at least the ones I’ve done at recognized competitions). The Modified division is intended to bridge that gap, to provide the more technical questions such as skinnies, corners (REAL corners), etc. you’d see on a Prelim course, just at a lower height. So you get the benefit of testing your accuracy without being stared down by maxed-out tables. Plus you have the “in-between” speed of 490 mpm to ease you into the transition of doing 520. :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=FrittSkritt;8880117]
The biggest difference is the XC. A T/P is simply Prelim dressage, Prelim SJ, Training XC. There are rarely any fences that are mixed in from the Prelim course on Training XC (at least the ones I’ve done at recognized competitions). The Modified division is intended to bridge that gap, to provide the more technical questions such as skinnies, corners (REAL corners), etc. you’d see on a Prelim course, just at a lower height. So you get the benefit of testing your accuracy without being stared down by maxed-out tables. Plus you have the “in-between” speed of 490 mpm to ease you into the transition of doing 520. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
That was my problem when I was looking into Prelim… it wasn’t the scope of the XC… it was nailing the speed! 520! And the amount of jumps… In my area Training would get you ~15-20 jumps with some combinations… then Prelim was 20-30 (usually leaning towards 30!) with some serious combinations left right and center.
But nobody says you have to be anywhere near making time your first few Prelim runs. You certainly don’t want to ride backwards into a Prelim fence, but anything on course can be jumped from a Training pace as long as you keep the RPM’s going.
I disagree that softer or move-up type Prelim courses should go away. I mean, they shouldn’t be Training courses with a couple 3’7" logs thrown in, they should have Prelim height fences and technicality, but it’s ok to have courses where not all the fences are maxed. Yes, I suppose they can still be used as qualifying scores, but with all the talk of personal responsibility, shouldn’t riders have the foresight to not enter a one star after doing only the softest Prelim runs they can find?
