I agree… And, as b*tchy as this might sound, if you’re have literally no hope of being competitive in any way, shape, or form - I don’t think there’s a reason to take on the other risks associated with XC…
It’s one thing to go slow and work on stuff with a green horse going BN/N, knowing you aren’t ending in the ribbons - it’s another to take a horse that isn’t remotely broke on the flat prelim and up.
Well… hmmm
First, I think saying “not remotely broke on the flat” is likely a bit of a hyperbole. How many times have I watched Rolex dressage, horse gets tense, score tanks and then the pair goes on to have a great time out on xcountry at a 5*
Believe it or not, some of us go to events to have fun - to ride our horses cross country. If a good ribbon comes our way, AWESOME. if it doesn’t, I go home to work on what didn’t go so well. I am a competitive person, but I don’t go south for the winter, I ride a $1500 OTTB, I work hard at my sport - because I love working w/ my horse and the partnership that develops from eventing. I am not “competitive”. But there is nothing like leaving the start box and conquering a course, some of which may scare me - with one of my best friends on the whole planet. That is why I event. And even at training and below - there is still risk and my horse or I could end up hurt. I don’t do it for the ribbon…
I understand that sentiment, but look at how dressage is weighted and scored these days.
It doesn’t matter how much (correct) training and understanding the horse has. If he is an average moving horse (or less than average), he has no hope of being competitive. Should he not compete?
The weight of scoring shifted a long time ago to favor fancy movement over correct training with the introduction of Paces as a collective mark. By default, movement should (and is) already factored into each movement score. We did away with the individual collective marks recently, because horses with better movement but not necessarily better training were coming up miles ahead score-wise.
My seasoned event horse, with solid dressage training, is being outscored by my barely broke, super green WB. I can pull her out after weeks off and “phone it in”. She is GP bred top and bottom with all dams/sires on her first page having GP careers or producing horses with GP careers – so she is bred for dressage. Her natural suppleness and movement make her look way more trained than she really is, and it really masks the incompleteness of her training. She is much greener than you would think, yet scores well. As her rider, I’m blown away by it. It feels disingenuous especially when I think of how hard I had to work for a 30s score on an average or ok mover.
I understand what you’re saying. But if your horse is having a bad day in dressage, perhaps it’s not the day for XC, either - particularly at the higher levels.
The dressage MER all boils down to rideability - you’re right that saying the horse is “broke” is not the right wording. If the horse is not rideable due to whatever (rider tension, spooky, whatever), then they should not be out on XC.
I think if this was truly the case then no one would have a problem with the dressage MER score. But we all know that dressage scoring now days is not just about how well trained the horse is or how rideable the horse is that day. How fancy the horse moves has a lot to do with it.
Read the well written post by @beowulf just above your post.
The very rideable but not fancy mover is not going to score a 45. 45s happen when something goes wrong, or the horse’s flatwork isn’t up to the level. The not fancy mover is going to get a 35-40 in comparison to the fancy mover who will be in the low 30s/20s.
Just what I’ve seen around here.
The rideable but not fancy mover can not risk having a single bobble, not dangerous thing, just a single bobble. The fancy horse can have several bobbles and still meet the score requirement.
You know this. Not sure why you are pretending this is not the case.
Again, this is not what I see around here. I’m in Chicagoland.
When I see super high scores in dressage, it is absolutely a bad day/bad pair/unrideable horse.
Does anyone have a video of a nice ride that scored a 45+? Or one with a small bobble?
I just flipped through some event results from around here, and my statement stands.
High scores generally stayed down there in the placings, or got removed on a letter.
Of large classes, only one or two was even above 40. I only saw one 50 in the smattering of events I looked at (5 or 6 of them).
This isn’t a limiting factor the way some are making it out to be. Learn to ride your horse, or accept that this won’t qualify as one of the MERs.
If you got a notification I replied to you in a totally unrelated thread, sorry. I somehow managed to quote you in a totally unrelated response while I was thinking of a reply… 
Are livestreams/replays of Landrover or Badminton still around?
IIRC there were a few 40s scores at Landrover last year, including crowd-favorite Honor Me. I bet the replay is somewhere.AP Prime scores in the 40s fairly consistently, as does Palm Crescent and one of Bobby’s horses I cannot remember the name of.
Anyway, you watch those videos and they are not dangerous… the horse just isn’t with them that day. That doesn’t mean they should retire or not ride XC - especially at the UL where the XC is not held the same day as dressage.
It’s not going to stop them riding XC in that competition. It’s just not going to qualify as a MER. So if it’s an off day, fine, go put in another test that’s more representative.
Unless I’m reading it totally wrong?
No, it’s not going to stop them riding. I was just responding to the comment above that (paraphrasing) suggested if you were having a bad dressage day maybe you should go home, since you won’t have a good XC day either.
I am not concerned about the immediate effect this change is going to have. I’m more concerned about the longterm effect this change introduces, especially if dressage continues in the trajectory its going in where it is becoming more and more weighted/influential and less about XC.
Thank you, yes. The concern I heard from eventers in my area (Area IV) when the original proposed change was 10 MERs was that getting out to enough recognized competitions to get the required number of MERs was going to be very cost prohibitive for many adult amateurs in areas outside FL.
I think the rule change will hurt not just AA, but also young riders who are sat on a stellar xc horse who can take them up the levels—to a 5-star perhaps—and give them that needed experience at that level, but who are not mentally or physically made to score in the dressage phase.
Like @endlessclimb I did a quick search of results on Event Entries. I looked at a smattering of all times of year and parts of the country. Honestly, it was hard to find even a handful of scores above 45 (at Training and above).
The few that were in that 43+ score looked to be having a bad weekend all around. Most resulted in refusals, retirement, W, or RF.
It’s an interesting conundrum because if TPTB really believe that a 45 is a dangerous day then why doesn’t it end in CR like it does with stadium? I guess not having it count as an MER will encourage athletes to decide if it is worth continuing on. Those who aren’t looking to move up won’t be effected.
FWIW, I think a 45 is more than attainable on an average mover having an average day. It really isn’t a game-stopper. And judging by how few scores I found that exceeded 45, it probably is getting more air-time than necessary.
@beowulf - AP Prime was eliminated at the 2nd horse inspection and didn’t go XC. Bobby’s horse was E’d on XC.
Not trying to be argumentative, just pointing out that those probably aren’t the best examples supporting your view.
Even the 5* Kentucky rides, only two over a 45, one of which ended in an E - the other one that was close to a 45 ended in a RF.
Look at the results, and think of the impact it will actually have. This is not a game changer, it’s a no-brainer.
I saw the same when looking specifically in my two nearby areas. Not ALWAYS but easily 80%+ of the dressage scores that high ended their day/competition with a letter.
I think that’s more of a conversation on competitiveness VS being capable of the bare minimum. I could talk for hours about dressage scoring but won’t get into it haha
I also have a hard time with the argument that average movers can’t do as well. My personal dressage horse is a not fancy 15.1 OTTB who beat warmblood after warmblood this summer at every show. She was relaxed, obedient and we make a harmonious pair. These things really can outweigh fancy movement these days. But I sure as hell put in the time.
That being said at the lowest levels a good mover can certainly get great scores without all the work. Not saying I agree with that though.
I think it all comes down to the fact 55% is average 5.5 on your scores. A 6 is sufficient and thus, it’s below sufficient. They aren’t saying you can compete or you are eliminated, just that you can’t move up until your scores are better.
Which I honestly think is fair. If you want to move up then put in the work.
This is not what I see, or experience at events and dressage shows here in Ontario.
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