I personally don’t understand why a rider who has dozens of MERs at say Training and dozens more at say Prelim has to then complete even more MERs before moving a horse up. It not only costs a ton of money but puts more miles on a horse. There’s not a big enough gap between riders who’ve never ridden at the level and riders who could ride at the level in their sleep
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Funnily enough, there was a 50 today at pine top in the advanced/intermediate
Luckily the horse probably doesn’t need anymore MERs considering it finished badminton with no xctry faults…
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Yeah that’s only one score, which I think most people can agree a bad test here and there isn’t a big deal. Sh*t happens. He did have XC penalties though, 10.8 time.
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I meant jump penalties, and at Badminton.
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Noticed a 54.4 in one of the Pine Top Open Training divisions, then a fall at fence 1 in SJ. This is training, but an open division, not rider. I like the events such as Pine Top that offers the hybrid training/novice where you can do the higher level dressage and sj but step down for xc. I have witnessed many terrible dressage tests that then do not go well for jumping. Always exceptions of course and purely anecdotal.
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If someone has a rip-roaring horrible dressage test that isn’t because of a bizarrely spooky venue, are you not wondering “what hurts/ails my horse today that caused that level of misbehavior?”
Nah. Let’s jump him instead.
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Just to be clear I wasn’t making a comment about the horses talent whatsoever.
Literally no one here is saying one bad dressage test means it’s not a safe horse jumping in any way. That horse does not score consistently in the 50s or even in the 40s. I’m sure he was wild on his first trip out in the wet chilly weather! 
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Oh I know. He is one of my favorites to watch, and a cross country machine. But its easy to see how a good competent horse can get such a bad score, and it’s not reflective on their ability.
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I think the issue is if they can’t get 6 scores that meet the requirement, the PTB feel they shouldn’t upgrade.
I’ll be honest I have a hard time understanding why riders are against this. Rider responsibility is at the forefront and since some riders won’t keep themselves back, they have made rules to do so.
Jmo
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Another great example of a horse who is a spectacular mover on the flat, a phenomenal and safe athlete across the country and over fences, ridden by someone who knows exactly what they are doing…but the horse is hot, and sometimes struggles to keep a lid on it between the boards.
This isn’t a dangerous combination - they were short-listed for the Tokyo Olympics. Their dressage score has no bearing on their ability to put in a safe jumping round over some of the biggest tracks in the world. I wouldn’t mind if that horse ran a level higher tomorrow.
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Pine Top this weekend was typical shitty weather PT (and PT is glorious in good weather), and why folks go to Florida. That said, it was not my day for an MER (and I didn’t need it) as I missed a fence. I watched quite a few horses, and if you stayed in the ring and were brave in the mud you had a great time…after the fact…with lots of stories to tell. Nekkid horses, cold rain, wind, big galloping tracks…old school.
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I give you credit for running this weekend. The weather was awful! We had an outdoor wedding we attended Saturday and were pretty miserable. February in Georgia for outdoor, anything is dicey. All credits for even running!
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Because it’s about cost and access, not some of the arguments people are making up here.
As of 2023, in order for me to get 6 MERs at Training, in my “local” competition range, it would take more than one year’s competitions to do so (we only have 5 events for the whole year) and 3 of those are at the same venue.
I’m defining “local” as a drive that us no further than 5 hours one way. Two of those events are run over 3 days. So, for me that means 2 days off work (neither is on a long weekend).
Or I could drive 8+ hours one way to an event out of province or out of country. That means a day off work each way for me to drive.
So one additional MER, in my estimation, costs:
$500 entry
$100 stabling
$400 fuel
$1000 missed day’s work
For $2000 minimum per MER, I have an issue with the idea that a pair with one “off” day in dressage but who otherwise is safe, having to do more MERs. Cause if I have to do another Training, that’s one less Prelim to get under our belts.
I have competed previously to today’s 3*-L level. But I’ve been doing low levels for a while, so I will need all the MERs.
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Blugal, you are qualified to run at Training having gotten your MERs done in the past and they are well above training, your horse needs 4 Trainings though. I think you’d have to get a run at preliminary on a qualified horse to get your ability to go Intermediate on that horse. However, would you want to jump up to Intermediate that fast anyway? I agree that in the past if you have ridden at the upper levels, you were considered competent to bring your horse out at prelim without asking. Sucks. However, I will say training today looks like prelim of yesterday, sometimes it has harder combinations than in the past. How anyone is attracted to eventing today I don’t know. I’m so addicted I can’t stop, but I don’t think I would have started if it cost what it does now and I were 20 again.
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Hmm that’s not how I read it, so sorry if I misinterpreted!
Of course I wouldn’t want to jump up to Prelim or Intermediate quickly. I bring my own horses up, so they need adequate mileage.
I agree the costs are high. I’m worried about our sport just dying out.
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I completely understand this. The costs of events here is riding and with gas for a one day is going to cost me approximately $500-$600.
I get it I do. I’ve been watching the FEI Eventing safety symposium and it’s pretty eye opening about the direction the sport is going and the arguments that support it are convincing.
TPTB will be doing everything they can to keep riders who aren’t ready from moving up or getting their MER. I think in the next 5 years you will really have to prove yourself to be able to upgrade. Conditions will tighten up even more. This is because of the issues over social licensing in our sport.
I’m going to make a separate thread on the conference because I think every event rider and supporter should be watching this to see the issues facing Eventing in 2023.
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So I’ve been trying to figure out how to formulate a response as to WHY I don’t like the MER change from 50 to 45. And a prime example is what just happened to my friend at an event, today (I’m not including her name but did receive permission to share her story, however i respectfully ask people not to go digging and publicly pull her apart, that’s not the point of sharing this story). She got a 47+ in dressage today, at M. Friends horse is a TB mare and historically struggles with tension issues, but it’s been a work in progress and I have witnessed the pair blossom over the course of 3 years. I watched the video she sent me and there’s no way that test should get the score it got. This is with a judge that I personally have had issues with, I know that whenever she is my judge I just expect to get 3-4 points higher with her, specifically. Now, when you’re already on a horse that you know you typically score, say high 30s on, coupled with a judge you know is notoriously difficult, coupled with maybe ONE “bad” movement - well, there is EASILY your 45 score. Should that trifecta prevent you from being able to move up? I would say no. BTW this is an extremely safe jumping / XC horse … my friend has been competing her very regularly (about once a month) since 2020 and she only has ONE 20 on the record (which is a technical 20, she chose to circle between A / B elements bc she didn’t like the line on her jump in).
So I guess all this to say … what do you do when there are judge(s) in the area who are KNOWN to score higher / harder when you are already at the high 30 / maybe low 40 score? Submit an event evaluation after the fact (which who knows how much good that does anyway?). I feel like having a MER with a 50 score accounts for instances such as this, but decreasing the MER to 45 doesn’t take into account situations like this.
By the way, the horse scored TEN points worse than the 2nd to last place score in the division, and is likely not so coincidentally the only TB in the group. Bias, much?
Edited last paragraph for clarity
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I fully understand what you’re getting at. Most of the time, judging is consistent. Most of the time, a reasonably well-trained and obedient horse is readily capable of 45.
But sometimes you get That Judge. Sometimes you get put in a spooky indoor arena. Sometimes the XC is running right next door to your ring. Sometimes X+Y+Z comes all in one day and… blech, there goes your MER. Personally, I think it should be allowed to have one dressage slip-up, so long as you achieve MER in the other (more important!) phases. It would mean the whole weekend isn’t a waste; it would mean your XC miles aren’t wasted (because you can still LEARN A LOT from finishing a course, even if your dressage isn’t great). In the FEI rules, it already states you need 4 MERs, but 1 of those 4 is allowed to have a 20 on XC. Why not make the national MERs for move-up allow 1 of those 4 (or 6) to have a dressage score above 45, with clear rounds in the other phases?
I had a particularly tough judge yesterday. My test wasn’t fantastic, there was some tension in transitions and a lack of stretch in the trot circle. But no major disobediences; good enough rhythm/relaxation after the transitions, and decent accuracy for the figures. I predicted I would score between 37-39. I got a 42. The leader in my division scored a 30.0…in a division filled with Great Riders and Nice Horses, it is a general rule that the dressage leader will be in the low to mid 20s. I didn’t see every test, but what I saw (plus in warmup) was the typical 20s scorers. So this judge, on this day, scored everyone 5-8 points higher than average. It’s “fair” from a competitive perspective, because we all got the same relative higher score (the winner is the winner whether the score is 20 or 30, and I was destined to be 12 points out of the lead that day). But is it “fair” from a MER perspective, if you were having a tense day on a below-average mover? Something to think about.
I personally don’t believe judges should artificially inflate scores…and sometimes I think those sub-20 scores are a little excessive… but if that means a legitimate, safe, 45 score becomes a 41 instead, that is much preferable to going the other way when the “safe 45” score turns into a 47 and ruins someone’s weekend and season-end goals.
FWIW, my “unqualified” horse is now qualified and ran Prelim yesterday. Had a brilliant run XC, but I can truthfully say the additional MERs at T & M were not useful in his preparation to move up; the experience he gained was not particularly relevant. The prelim course yesterday was MUCH more complicated and demanding than our last two T & M xc runs. If anything, it cemented my feelings that practice at home, and XC schooling in controlled locations (where you can build up the difficulty you need) is MUCH, MUCH better at preparing for a move-up than running dozens of MERs at a lower level. My horse had a successful Prelim outing because I practice difficult stuff AT HOME…not because he completed more official Training or Modified events.
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Yes!
I also agree with this. These new rules are supposed to be minimums to move up. Don’t make it impossible to do that… aren’t we supposed to be trying to attract more participants to this [sport]?
Also is there a chance that TPTB are eventually going to make Modified a required level, with some MERs there? So that you now need to qualify to go Modified then qualify to go Prelim? And then let the FEI take more of our money and force us to do 1* FEIs as qualifiers for 2*?
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