There is a growing movement in the UK and Europe to “spay” bitches by removing the uterus, but leaving the ovaries so that they would have the protective hormones.
Bluey, I doubt it was exercise as to why you haven’t had spayed bitch incontinebpnce as the wolfhounds are extremely active and get miles of exercise…breed/size/chance more likely.
[QUOTE=Houndhill;6399987]
Handydandyjake, do you think your vaccine would also be protective against the increased risk of osteosarcoma?
I would be much more likely to spay my bitches past breeding age, if so. I would get the gastropexy at the same time, and have two less things to worry about![/QUOTE]
I am no expert with osteosarcoma, but my two cents on it is that I don’t think the vaccine would help. Estrogen receptor mRNA has been detected in osteoclasts, indicating a direct relationship, but it’s been found in mice that LH and FSH do not directly affect bone development. So while estrogen plays a role in the regulation of osteoclast development (and ovary removal could disrupt this regulation), LH and FSH do not and vaccinating against these hormones wouldn’t help restore that regulation.
Thanks for your info.
Well, durn!
We spayed our dog at about 6 months, and shortly thereafter she started having accidents in her sleep - and she had never had that before. She went on Proin, and the problem was resolved. When we evacuated New Orleans after Katrina, it took me a couple of weeks to get her Proin (I’d left her bottle at home by mistake) and she did have an accident in her sleep after a couple of weeks off the drug, but no accidets after she went back on. She just turned 13, so she’s been on the Proin for 12.5 years now.
If a female dog is spayed before her first heat cycle, her risk of developing mammary carcinoma is only 0.05%. If she is spayed after having only one heat cycle, her risk of mammary carcinoma jumps to 8%. If she is spayed after her second heat cycle, that risk becomes 26%. So don’t wait too long. A little urinary incontinence won’t kill a dog, but mammary cancer can!
I don’t know if I agree (with the ease of managing an incontinent dog–don’t know about your stats either way). Where are those high stats from? I’m not saying you are wrong, but I would like to read the studies. I am active in our large AKC kennel club, which of course includes LOTS of unspayed bitches for conformation, and I am not seeing an overwhelming number of bitches getting cancer. My spayed bitch died of cancer. How are they differentiating between the spayed and unspayed bitches? What age is this occuring?
It is incredibly difficult to live with big a dog that pees all over your furniture, ruins your floors, can’t go with you to your relatives because she has accidents, etc. I don’t want to make her live in a crate all the time. I spent half a day at the last dog show at a laundrymat trying to dry the hotel comforter she peed on in her sleep. It is a huge stress. I don’t have data, but these are also the kind of older dogs that end up at the shelter. I personally know people who couldn’t live with the dog peeing and gave them up. I imagine they died too. Who wants to adopt an incontinent dog?
Interesting.
I tend to have male dogs but of the few females I have had they have been 3/5 spay incontinent. 2 Dobes and my current Terrier are/were. The only female that is not is the current Dobe bitch my parents have and she was spayed a bit later after her first heat cycle. #5 out of that lot was my Newf who refused to ever come inside so to be honest I have no idea if she was or was not SI.
My preference is to spay before first heat with females and leave my males intact for a bit longer if possible with 5yo being the max before neutering.
ETA…of the 3 that required meds for SI…one pill every day or for the little one every 3 days and they are 100% reliable. In my experience it is SIMPLE to manage. My males mark like maniacs…pee on cars, horse blankets, other dogs…anything outside and within reach is fair game…wish there were a simple pill to solve that!!
I already decided my next dog is a male. I like working with males, and I cannot do another lifetime-incontinent dog. The pill is not 100% for this one. The only way I would do a female is if she is breeding-quality and I am showing her. Which is pretty unlikely, I don’t feel like breeding for one thing…but never say never.
My male does not mark, but he is spayed and was probably spayed young.
I look forward to hearing how this vaccine trial goes!
TTP have you tried PPA (Prion) and/or estrogen for your dog?
She gets Proin every day. I would say she is 90% managed.
You might want to add a low dose of estrogen too. My vet prescribed estrogen when Proin didn’t work for my dog. She didn’t happen respond to Proin because her problem was that she kept getting bladder infections. Estrogen might help your dog that last 10%. My dog was 100% on estrogen and no Proin.
If a female dog is spayed before her first heat cycle, her risk of developing mammary carcinoma is only 0.05%. If she is spayed after having only one heat cycle, her risk of mammary carcinoma jumps to 8%. If she is spayed after her second heat cycle, that risk becomes 26%. So don’t wait too long. A little urinary incontinence won’t kill a dog, but mammary cancer can!
mammary cancer in dogs is very rarely fatal, and is usually very easy to treat, just a simple surgery.
If you’ve ever lived with a spay-incontinent dog, it is a very unpleasant condition for both the people and the affected dog, and it often has to be lived with for many, many years.
There are many other health benefits to delay spaying until age 2 or 3, or even later.
[QUOTE=wendy;6403185]
mammary cancer in dogs is very rarely fatal, and is usually very easy to treat, just a simple surgery.
If you’ve ever lived with a spay-incontinent dog, it is a very unpleasant condition for both the people and the affected dog, and it often has to be lived with for many, many years.
There are many other health benefits to delay spaying until age 2 or 3, or even later.[/QUOTE]
This is innacurate. Mammary cancer in dogs (and cats) is often fatal as it does metastasize. It is a more managable cancer, but it can be extremely invasive and this cancer is NOT just a simple surgery. All margins need to be resected, and even then it can return with time. It can also precede carcinomatosis. Its not super common, but intact females are far more at risk than spayed. Just like any cancer, it can happen to both spayed and intact.
I have never been a fan of spaying before 6 months, however I dont like to delay it past a year more due to pain of surgery. The more mature and “fat” the female has on her, the more painful the operation. Mature spays cost more in some clinics to cover the cost of added pain medication (and if it doesnt cost more…request to know their analgesia protocol! A litte torb/ace premed will do dick all!) I also want to decrease the chance of mammary cancer within reason, so before a year is what I personally feel is a good choice.
Spay incontinence sucks, and if not treatable with PPA I would imagine most people couldnt handle it. Spay incontincence SHOULD be responsive to these drugs though.
If its not, MANY vets misdiagnose ECTOPIC URETERS with spay incontinence.
This is a conformation fault of the animals, and in some cases causes continuous leaky urine and in some cases causes general day incontinence. If your dog isnt responsive to hormonal drugs for spay incontinence, there is a decent chance your dog has EU.
[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;6403021]
It is incredibly difficult to live with big a dog that pees all over your furniture, ruins your floors, can’t go with you to your relatives because she has accidents, etc. I don’t want to make her live in a crate all the time. I spent half a day at the last dog show at a laundrymat trying to dry the hotel comforter she peed on in her sleep. It is a huge stress. I don’t have data, but these are also the kind of older dogs that end up at the shelter. I personally know people who couldn’t live with the dog peeing and gave them up. I imagine they died too. Who wants to adopt an incontinent dog?[/QUOTE]
This isnt typical of spay incontinence. Most SI dogs are “mildly” incontinent which is 100% responsive to PPA or estrogen. If your dog is literally peeing all over your furniture, on your floor all the time etc. then I’d assume there is something else going on? Has she had a workup for ectopic ureters or pelvic bladder?
You don’t need a pill for that, you just need to train them that just because they have balls doesn’t mean they can pee on anything and everything 
I have an intact male… does he want to go pee on everything? Sure. Is he allowed to? Nope!
And I agree with everyone re: living with an incontinent dog. It is frustrating sometimes, and my girl isn’t even THAT bad. But there are some nights where I’m cleaning up multiple little accidents… I find myself asking her where all the pee comes from (because she’ll have one, I take her outside, she pees, comes back in & lays down, then has another small one almost immediately… x3 or 4 if it’s bad)?! And like I said, Proin is a big fat NO for her.
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