Sorry to hear about your Dad. The biggest thing I found to make the transition easier is to make it easy on the staff. I have a wipe off board on my horses stall. I bag things, smartpaks and the like are a god send. I keep her fly spray there and in the summer she will have her sunblock right there too. Also, always talk to your BO/BM about any issues with tact which can be hard when things go sideways.
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The more information the better, @Horsecare101. Several people asked repeatedly how big your bales were.
Since you’ve worked for large animal vets, you know that horses need about 2% of their body weight in forage every day. Your hay pellets and senior feed count into that, but you might want to confirm that your horse is actually getting that number. It’s not uncommon for vets to give incorrect advice on nutrition–best to double check the math yourself.
Entirely reasonable to explore the possibility that barn staff might feel badly for a horse only getting one flake twice a day and feed more than directed, which is one reason why what you’re feeding was discussed at all.
BTW, I store 4 of those large california three string alfalfa bales on a pallet, and move them myself. They’re about 110 pounds, but I’ve had them weigh as much as 130. No reason you can’t store more than two bales at the barn, and that might help mitigate some stress.
Best of luck.
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Thanks! This thread has helped me get a better grasp on how to handle the barn manager and feeding issues. That’s exactly what I needed. I’m new to barn politics.
I may be totally wrong on this, but to me it’s unacceptable for a barn work/manager to take it upon themselves to overfeed a horse in it’s care when the owner has given specific instruction. I have no doubt it happens, but if a BM or barn worker thinks a horse is being underfed, shouldn’t that be addressed with the owner rather than simply overriding their care instructions? I’m asking because a few people mentioned this as though it’s a normal thing to do. I
As some have mentioned - a senior horse may need to be kept at a careful weight rather than overfed. I keep a very close eye on my horse’s feed because he is on the older side and I’m new to handling his care full time, that’s why I knew exactly how much senior feed, hay cubes, and flakes were left. I was tracking it all to see how much he was being fed, how much he was eating and processing, and then checking his stool. If someone took it upon themselves to constantly overfeed, it makes it extremely difficult to monitor what is happening. I feel it’s important to closely monitor my horse’s intake since he just moved into a completely new environment 3 weeks ago and I wasn’t sure how it would affect him.
A number of people commented that the barn workers may feel bad for my horse, but that is overstepping IMO. They don’t know my horse or it’s history, so how people would think that is an acceptable approach to horse care seems crazy to me. Is that really common practice? To override an owners instructions because a barn worker feels bad for a horse? This is the kind of stuff I’m really interested in learning so I can keep an eye out.
Also I realize I’m probably more hands on than an average owner in a barn. I see my horse 2-3x daily and put him in the arena every day at lunch. I’m overboard at this point because it’s all new and also exciting for me to have him around the corner.
@Horsecare101, it is overstepping.
These part self-care situations can be kind of tricky in that sense, though, because you can and will see people who don’t want to feed Dobbin a lot because it’s costs a lot of money and so will ration forage or hard feed. Or they buy crappy cheap hay that provides little nutritional benefit. It’s the other side of the coin from this scenario, where you have someone who is closely monitoring their horse and have designed a program for them. Plenty of CoTH folks could tell you stories like this.
IMO, either way it’s poor business management. If you truly run into a situation where as a BO you are concerned about a boarder’s horse not getting enough feed, then a discussion needs to be had. If the owner won’t budge and it comes down to an issue of animal welfare, your choices as an owner are either to leave it alone, continue to try and gently engage the owner or ask them to leave your barn. But if it’s not your animal, you don’t just do whatever you want.
Yeah, I’d say it’s fairly common practice. There are a lot of things that are common–or at least not unheard of–in boarding environments that are pretty impressive on the “barn owners taking it upon themselves” front. The more people you involve in your horse’s care, the greater risk things aren’t going to be be done the way you want. You have to decide what your tolerance of that is and pick a few things that are your main priorities to enforce.
If this continues to happen, asking WHY more hay was fed–and listening to the answer–would be useful. It could be that the horse is getting upset when he’s out of food and his neighbors aren’t. Or that he’s trying to steal hay from his neighbors. Or he’s chewing or being destructive because he’s out of food.
I hope that you’re considering the amount of time he’s got an empty belly. The stress of the move and this feeding schedule is pretty much tailored to create ulcers. Frankly, this barn sounds like a bad fit–I sure wouldn’t want a horse that’s on nearly all bucket feed to only be fed twice a day.
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I think stacking small buckets in the bin is a good idea if you are at the barn often enough to keep ahead of it, since I’m not sure how many days would fit. That would be more reliable than 2 baggies per meal.
I do do want to note that you probably shouldn’t keep extra feed in your car for very long. The senior feed especially may go rancid if it gets too hot in your car. I keep extra in my garage and it does ok. If you don’t have a garage, you may have to get creative, but a hot vehicle is not ideal.
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Thank you! I have been buying senior/hay cubes as needed so it was in my car for one day, but I have a garage. Now that I’m stocking up more, I’ll be keeping a bag there. I didn’t realize it could go bad in my car, but makes perfect sense.
it is poor management and yes, it is overstepping – however, the other side of the coin is that in a lot of rough board situations, horse owners will scrimp on food/hay and they will feed their horses less than their horses need: creating unthrifty, skinny horses that end up reflecting poorly on the barn manager rather than the person (the owner) responsible for devising the feed… and then, of course, the issue of the horse slowly starving… it’s not pretty.
as a BM i had one rough boarder that was really a struggle for me. the horse was an older (17 y/o) WB who blew me away with how skinny he was - i mean, he was like a 3 or 4 on the HBS - real gaunt and dull, and he was also very footsore being barefoot, and slipped constantly … and the owner was only feeding him 1/2 quart of Sentinel Blue Seal LS a day and 3 flakes a day - meanwhile, her competition horse was getting 6lb a day and endless hay… it was a really frustrating, awful situation and i talked to her many times about how poor i thought her horse looked, how he needed a vet visit, how uncomfortable he was being brought in and out of the paddock, and how he really needed more than 1/4 quart AM/PM… she would argue with me and just say “that is what old horses look like” – bullspit — our oldest horse there was a toothless 31 y/o 14h arabian that was wider than a mack truck… the next was a 27 y/o QH in glistening condition – my own personal TB was 17 and fat and sleek… no reason a 17 y/o retiree should be a 3 or 4 on the HBS.
the owner was pretty difficult, brought a lot of money in for us in terms of training and showing, but the issue with her older horse was pretty upsetting and BO did not want to rock the boat.
if i am honest, i ended up talking to the BO about it and we gave him extra hay during night check (our own, not the owners). was it overstepping? yes, it was – but the horse was starving to death and i do not for a minute regret tossing over 4 extra flakes a day - i even offered to have it come out of my pay check. the end of the day, the owner was responsible for his horrible decline and she was being cheap and he was starving to death right before everyone’s eyes.
when i left, he ended up declining quite rapidly and they put him to sleep. IMHO they should have done it years before that but they waited to the point where he was a walking skeleton to do it.
people don’t always do what’s right for their horse and barn staff get to see that right up and close - horses are extremely expensive and owners want to cut corners and in most cases if you’re rough or semi board you are doing it for a reason – you either don’t have the finances for full board or the horse needs a level of care only you are comfortable providing.
problem is you work long enough in this industry and you see that by and large the rough boarders are typically rough-boarding because they can’t afford a horse otherwise and they’re doing everything they can to make ends meet. sometimes it comes at the cost of quality nutrition for the horse – and horse people are cheap – the horse can get the crap end of the stick that way, shorted out of veterinarian care or shorted out of good nutrition. it’s the cold and uncompromising truth and a lot of workers probably have very similar stories to my own.
it’s not to say all rough boarders are like that - many aren’t… but you run across one and it’s like they say, once bitten, twice shy.
honestly, having cared for many geriatrics – and successfully – i’d rather my older horses to have more padding than less, barring if they have old physical issues requiring them to be trim. all it takes is a colic, an illness, for that “extra” 200lb to drop off of them like fat sizzling off cast iron: in many cases, it’s good for them to have some extra padding especially going into winter. it’s much, much harder to put back that weight that they lost on them, then it is for them to lose it in the first place.
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Thanks for the insight - I’m surprised to hear it, but I’m quickly learning how the barns work. I talked to the BM and it sounds like as they are switching barn staff, there was a miscommunication. They simply didn’t realize two people were feeding all horses for a few days. They came at different times and were doubling up.
As for the ulcers - his hay lasts all day long. He doesn’t eat it all at once, he gobbles up his cubes and senior, but usually munches on the hay throughout the day. Do you think it would be beneficial for me to give him a portion of his cubes/senior when i see him at lunch also? I can easily start doing that if it would help curb the chance of ulcers as well as the constant hay.
Max amount that should be fed at once in a grain meal (or a grain type meal) is 5-6 pounds. If you’re using a 3 qt scoop, you’re pushing that limit feeding twice a day. Weigh his meal (also good for figuring out if you’re meeting his daily forage needs) and see where you are. Smaller, more frequent meals are pretty much always better anyway, so yes, I would absolutely give him lunch when you come out midday.
The barn manager’s story doesn’t really seem to track…it should have been obvious to anyone that horses had already been hayed. Hopefully that problem is solved since you’ve said only one person is feeding going forward.
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I can completely understand throwing extra food in that situation. I probably would have done the same - that’s horrible to watch an animal suffer because of cost reasons. If anyone thinks that of me at my barn, they haven’t said a word. I am happy to change up his feed as needed - cost isn’t the issue. I’m not holding back his feed for cost, I’m trying to track it to get on a good delivery schedule and make sure it’s working well for him. If people are willy-nilly throwing feed in, I can’t get on a good routine.
I hope your story above is few and far between. That’s horrible! I’m what you would call horse poor. I think most of my paycheck went on Red this month because I’m excited to have him lol. Wouldn’t have it any other way 
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You cannot say 3qts is pushing the weight limit because that’s volume, not weight. Without knowing the feed and nutritional profile knowing the volume is meaningless, especially when much of that seems to be wet beet pulp.
The horse is on senior and pellets, as per the first post. Not beet pulp. Considering that I, too, have fed pellets and senior, I am reasonably sure that a 3 qt scoop of pellets and a 3 qt scoop of senior is pushing the weight limit. But perhaps not, which is why I suggested to the OP that she weigh the meal.
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The reason I chose and still like this barn is because it’s 4 minutes from my office which is why I can see him so often. It also has trails right off the property. I was looking at another barn that was more regulated - they handled all feed and it was more expensive, but it was going to limit access to my horse and trails. San Diego is a tough spot for a trail horse to find open space, so while this barn isn’t full service - it fits our needs better than any other.
The OP’s horse is on a some what unusual diet in that he is getting a higher volume of hard feed or cubes than most horses and they are more important to his diet.
Feeding at a barn might be done by the barn manager, but might also be done by a 13 year old working off lessons or a minimum wage adult.
If standard practice is tossing x flakes of hay x times a day, the feeder might not even have clued in that your horse has very different requirements.
So yes making it as fool proof as possible is a good idea.
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In your original post you mention pellets, but not specifically hay cubes. Feeder may not realize your horse gets cubes, in a perfect world of course they would, but this is planet Earth. I would suggest punching a pillow and some primal scream therapy in private, then a calm conversation with barn manager in which you offer to get some covered buckets and set up cubes so feeder just has to add water(clearly labeling these buckets as DOBBINS HAY CUBES PLEASE FILL TO THE LINE WITH WATER AND GIVE EVERY FEEDING THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU) or whatever they may find most convenient. The staff are dealing with many horses and many more people so even when there are the best of intentions miscommunications happen…yes it sucks but this early in the game you need to at least try and believe everyone wants to play nice. And especially where this barn is not full service they may be dealing with more “sudden requests for favors” or things like people running out of supplies more than you realize which is almost as difficult if not more than just doing it all themselves. I have had my horses at home, full, semi rough and rough boarded them as well as worked in barns so have seen what it looks like from all views.
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Hahaha I love your comment! Punching some pillows is the right way to go! I really do want to play nice and I actually really like the BM - I think she is trying to get the whole situation under control. It looks like I moved in the same month she decided to take over (she is also the owner) so there are a lot of changes happening - all for the better from what I can tell. I grew up with a bunch of old, direct, no BS type cowboys so prancing around the barn etiquette is VERY foreign to me. I saw it when I was working for the vets, but was never in it. Luckily this is a very low key barn (another reason I like it so much) but other people having a say in what happens with my horse is so strange. It’s a very different world than I’m used to. I tend to be rather blunt myself, so I’m learning to lock it up more than normal. This forum was like my pillow lol!
My horse owners don’t decide what their horses get fed or how much. I do. Part of my service provision. Luckily it works well for all of us.
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I didn’t see anyone else address your question about spreading his food out over 3 feeds and yes, that would be a great idea.
Boarding is pita. It just is. For everyone involved. It just is. I don’t remember who it is right now that has the signature that says something about 2 horse people having 3 opinions and that is SO true. It sounds like if you can get the whole feeding thing figured out that you have a nice place close to work.
Good luck!
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Being blunt and direct is perfectly OK, this is not only another living being but also quite a financial investment on your part, just try not to be hard and sharp. Definitely bring up anything amiss with feedings or that you would “like to change” about your horse’s care, but do allow a bit of a cooling off period and maybe get a non horse person’s perspective even just to help remind you of how challenging it may be for the other side with all these changes going on at once.
